Biden's $3.5 Trillion Spending Bill Really Cost "Zero"?

[Kenny]

Who get lifetime medical coverage while over 10 million Americans don't have any medical inurance.

No one... because of INTEREST ON DEBT:

irrepsonsible spending!

 

[metis]

You did notice I said "the last 40 years) - that includes the previous admin.

You are right about "Sometimes things must be addressed and worked on simultaneously." which would have been great maybe 30 years ago.

But... look at the 3.5 trillion.... is it really "infrastructure?"

• $726 billion for the Health, Labor, Education and Pensions Committee with expansive instructions to address some of Democrats' top priorities. Those areas include universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, child care for working families, tuition-free community college, funding for historically black colleges and universities and an expansion of the Pell Grant for higher education.
• $107 billion for the Judiciary Committee, including instructions to address "lawful permanent status for qualified immigrants."
• $135 billion for the Committee on Agriculture Nutrition and Forestry, including instructions to address forest fires, reduce carbon emissions and address drought concerns.
• $332 billion for the Banking Committee, including instructions to invest in public housing, the Housing Trust Fund, housing affordability and equity and community land trusts.
• $198 billion for the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, including instructions largely related to clean energy development.

Senate Democrats Roll Child Care And Immigration Into A $3.5T Budget Framework

as well as: "One piece that hasn’t received much attention yet is a special journalism “tax credit” equal to 50% of the salary of each journalist—up to $50,000 per journalist annually." (Daily Signal)
2. Big Labor Tax Break
Sec. 138514 provides for an above-the-line deduction for up to $250 in “dues” to a labor organization.
This deduction would cost $4.25 billion in revenues.

3. Solar Subsidies to “Promote Environmental Justice”

This provision in the bill expands the energy credit for solar facilities in low-income communities, in which “the Secretary makes an allocation of environmental justice solar capacity limitation.”

The extension, modification, and increase in this energy credit would cost $63.9 billion.

4. $15 Billion for “Energy-Efficient” Doors and Windows

The reconciliation package would replace a $500 lifetime cap on nonbusiness energy property credits with an annual $1,200 credit. This credit allows up to $600 in credits for energy efficient windows and skylights and up to $500 for energy efficient doors.

This provision also increases the percentage of the credit for installing qualified energy efficiency improvements from 10 percent of the cost to 30 percent. There is no reason the government should be subsidizing individuals’ door and window replacements.

5. Tax Credit for Electric Bikes

Sec. 136407 establishes a 15 percent refundable tax credit for electric bicycles. Under this law, taxpayers could claim a credit of up to $1,500 for electric bicycles costing as much as $8,000 per bike. As a reminder, a tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar reduction in your tax liability.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that this provision alone could cost $7.43 billion.

In 2020, the e-bike market was valued at $23.89 billion.

6. Tax Breaks for Elite, Well-Funded Private Universities

Sec. 137702 of this bill would reduce, potentially down to zero, excise tax on investment income of private colleges and universities depending on the amount of financial aid they offer their students. Notably, universities who can provide a lot of grants and scholarships are typically universities with the largest endowments: for example, universities like Harvard and Yale.

The amount of tax imposed would be reduced based on the aggregate amount of qualified aid awards provided by the institution in relation to the aggregate undergraduate tuition and fees received by the institution. This phaseout would reduce tax revenues by $2.34 billion.

7. Investments in the “Green Workforce”

In Title 5 of this bill, “Investment in the Green Workforce,” Democrats spend $10 billion funding perplexing, niche credits:

• Sec. 136501 allows the Secretary to allocate an additional $2.5 billion in credits for the advanced energy project credit. About $400 million in credits each year would be reserved for projects in “automotive communities.” Automotive communities, in this bill, are defined as communities that have “experienced major job losses in the automotive manufacturing sector.”

• Sec. 136502 provides a credit for up to 10 percent of the labor costs incurred by a taxpayer in installing “mechanical insulation property into a mechanical system which was originally placed in service not less than 1 year before the date on which such mechanical insulation property is installed.” Huh?

8. Refundable Credit for “Environmental Justice” Programs

Sec. 136601 of the bill.

This provision creates a capped refundable competitive credit of $1 billion for each year from 2022 through and including 2031 to institutions of higher education for environmental justice (EJ) programs. The base credit is 20 percent of costs spent within five years by the higher education institution; however, for HBCUs and minority-serving institutions (MSIs), this credit could cover 30 percent of costs.

9. Repealing Social Security Number Requirement to Qualify for Child Tax Credit (CTC)

Sec. 137102 would eliminate the Social Security Number requirement for qualifying children, ... ...opening the credit up to more abuse.

10. Credit for Contributions to a Public Universities’ Research Infrastructure Projects
The “public university research infrastructure credit” is an amount equal to 40 percent of the qualified cash contributions made by a taxpayer during such taxable year for a qualifying project. The credit amounts allocated to a certified educational institution for all projects cannot exceed $50,000,000 per year, and the total amount of qualifying project credit amounts that may be allocated can be up to $500,000,000 for each 2022 through 2026 – or $2.5 billion in total.

(America for tax reform)

this isn't responsible infrastructure.


infrastructure
ĭn′frə-strŭk″chər
noun

1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
3. An underlyingbase or foundation especially for an organization or system

We can debate some of these... but the point is this really isn't infrastructure... it is a free for all.

I hope you're aware that the site you're using is into partisan politics.

We've got some serious problems as a country that has been put off for way too long, such as in education, healthcare, climate change, poverty, etc., so we will reap what we so if we don't get serious about investing in ourm own families and our own future. The only question is do we have the desire and the willingness to bite the bullet and invest in our own people?

Anthropologist Desmond Morris said it quite well several decades ago, as when he was asked about America's future he said we need to realize that no society in history can conintuiue to pit person against person in rabid competititon and survive in the long run. With the fractionalization we see taking place right now here, we need to finally take this seriously: a house divided cannot stand.

 

[metis]

No one... because of INTEREST ON DEBT:

View attachment 56066

irrepsonsible spending!

But please do realize that we've been doing this for almost a full century, and yet we're still the world's # 1 economic powerhouse. Beware of the scare tactics used by some as they tend to only get used when the "other side" deficit spends.

Am I concerned? Of course I am as I studied economics in college-- you know, a little bit of knowledge makes me dangerous.

 

[Revoltingest]

Depends on the RoI (Return on Investment). If you spend 190$ but it gets you 190$ in return. Did you spend anything?

Yes.
$190.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ok riddle me this. If you spend $100.00 for something does it really cost you "zero".
The tortured logic that lets Biden, Pelosi say a $3.5 trillion bill will "cost zero dollars"

Newsweek has a paywall.
Quote some text?

Edit....
This source has no paywall (for me anyway).
The Tortured Logic that Lets Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi Say a $3.5 Trillion Bill Will 'Cost Zero Dollars'

 

[Kenny]

I hope you're aware that the site you're using is into partisan politics.

We've got some serious problems as a country that has been put off for way too long, such as in education, healthcare, climate change, poverty, etc., so we will reap what we so if we don't get serious about investing in ourm own families and our own future. The only question is do we have the desire and the willingness to bite the bullet and invest in our own people?

Anthropologist Desmond Morris said it quite well several decades ago, as when he was asked about America's future he said we need to realize that no society in history can conintuiue to pit person against person in rabid competititon and survive in the long run. With the fractionalization we see taking place right now here, we need to finally take this seriously: a house divided cannot stand.

I just picked the first one that I found....

the figures are, however, correct if I am not mistaken.

But the interest is all the things that you want (Christmas list)

 

[Revoltingest]

Ok riddle me this. If you spend $100.00 for something does it really cost you "zero".
The tortured logic that lets Biden, Pelosi say a $3.5 trillion bill will "cost zero dollars"

Politicians typically don't consider taxes we pay to be our money.
Moreover, they generally don't understanding GAAP (Generally
Accepted Accounting Procedures), which explains why they
have those bizarre IRS rules.
But it still costs $3.5T. The same money could've been used for
other purposes, eg, pay off debt. Since it cannot be used for that,
this shows how the cost is not zero.

Interesting....when Trump lied, liberals were all over him for it.
When Biden lies, it's "oh that's just Biden being a politician".
Or worse yet....they think he's being truthful.

 

[Kenny]

But please do realize that we've been doing this for almost a full century, and yet we're still the world's # 1 economic powerhouse. Beware of the scare tactics used by some as they tend to only get used when the "other side" deficit spends.

Am I concerned? Of course I am as I studied economics in college-- you know, a little bit of knowledge makes me dangerous.

Any car moves forward on an incline until it reaches the stopping point.

How many people have said the same things in their personal finances?

All of these people most likely said "but we have been a powerhouse">

 

[Suave]

You did notice I said "the last 40 years) - that includes the previous admin.

You are right about "Sometimes things must be addressed and worked on simultaneously." which would have been great maybe 30 years ago.

But... look at the 3.5 trillion.... is it really "infrastructure?"

• $726 billion for the Health, Labor, Education and Pensions Committee with expansive instructions to address some of Democrats' top priorities. Those areas include universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, child care for working families, tuition-free community college, funding for historically black colleges and universities and an expansion of the Pell Grant for higher education.
• $107 billion for the Judiciary Committee, including instructions to address "lawful permanent status for qualified immigrants."
• $135 billion for the Committee on Agriculture Nutrition and Forestry, including instructions to address forest fires, reduce carbon emissions and address drought concerns.
• $332 billion for the Banking Committee, including instructions to invest in public housing, the Housing Trust Fund, housing affordability and equity and community land trusts.
• $198 billion for the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, including instructions largely related to clean energy development.

Senate Democrats Roll Child Care And Immigration Into A $3.5T Budget Framework

as well as: "One piece that hasn’t received much attention yet is a special journalism “tax credit” equal to 50% of the salary of each journalist—up to $50,000 per journalist annually." (Daily Signal)
2. Big Labor Tax Break
Sec. 138514 provides for an above-the-line deduction for up to $250 in “dues” to a labor organization.
This deduction would cost $4.25 billion in revenues.

3. Solar Subsidies to “Promote Environmental Justice”

This provision in the bill expands the energy credit for solar facilities in low-income communities, in which “the Secretary makes an allocation of environmental justice solar capacity limitation.”

The extension, modification, and increase in this energy credit would cost $63.9 billion.

4. $15 Billion for “Energy-Efficient” Doors and Windows

The reconciliation package would replace a $500 lifetime cap on nonbusiness energy property credits with an annual $1,200 credit. This credit allows up to $600 in credits for energy efficient windows and skylights and up to $500 for energy efficient doors.

This provision also increases the percentage of the credit for installing qualified energy efficiency improvements from 10 percent of the cost to 30 percent. There is no reason the government should be subsidizing individuals’ door and window replacements.

5. Tax Credit for Electric Bikes

Sec. 136407 establishes a 15 percent refundable tax credit for electric bicycles. Under this law, taxpayers could claim a credit of up to $1,500 for electric bicycles costing as much as $8,000 per bike. As a reminder, a tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar reduction in your tax liability.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that this provision alone could cost $7.43 billion.

In 2020, the e-bike market was valued at $23.89 billion.

6. Tax Breaks for Elite, Well-Funded Private Universities

Sec. 137702 of this bill would reduce, potentially down to zero, excise tax on investment income of private colleges and universities depending on the amount of financial aid they offer their students. Notably, universities who can provide a lot of grants and scholarships are typically universities with the largest endowments: for example, universities like Harvard and Yale.

The amount of tax imposed would be reduced based on the aggregate amount of qualified aid awards provided by the institution in relation to the aggregate undergraduate tuition and fees received by the institution. This phaseout would reduce tax revenues by $2.34 billion.

7. Investments in the “Green Workforce”

In Title 5 of this bill, “Investment in the Green Workforce,” Democrats spend $10 billion funding perplexing, niche credits:

• Sec. 136501 allows the Secretary to allocate an additional $2.5 billion in credits for the advanced energy project credit. About $400 million in credits each year would be reserved for projects in “automotive communities.” Automotive communities, in this bill, are defined as communities that have “experienced major job losses in the automotive manufacturing sector.”

• Sec. 136502 provides a credit for up to 10 percent of the labor costs incurred by a taxpayer in installing “mechanical insulation property into a mechanical system which was originally placed in service not less than 1 year before the date on which such mechanical insulation property is installed.” Huh?

8. Refundable Credit for “Environmental Justice” Programs

Sec. 136601 of the bill.

This provision creates a capped refundable competitive credit of $1 billion for each year from 2022 through and including 2031 to institutions of higher education for environmental justice (EJ) programs. The base credit is 20 percent of costs spent within five years by the higher education institution; however, for HBCUs and minority-serving institutions (MSIs), this credit could cover 30 percent of costs.

9. Repealing Social Security Number Requirement to Qualify for Child Tax Credit (CTC)

Sec. 137102 would eliminate the Social Security Number requirement for qualifying children, ... ...opening the credit up to more abuse.

10. Credit for Contributions to a Public Universities’ Research Infrastructure Projects
The “public university research infrastructure credit” is an amount equal to 40 percent of the qualified cash contributions made by a taxpayer during such taxable year for a qualifying project. The credit amounts allocated to a certified educational institution for all projects cannot exceed $50,000,000 per year, and the total amount of qualifying project credit amounts that may be allocated can be up to $500,000,000 for each 2022 through 2026 – or $2.5 billion in total.

(America for tax reform)

this isn't responsible infrastructure.


infrastructure
ĭn′frə-strŭk″chər
noun

1. An underlying base or foundation especially for an organization or system.
2. The basic facilities, services, and installations needed for the functioning of a community or society, such as transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons.
3. An underlyingbase or foundation especially for an organization or system

We can debate some of these... but the point is this really isn't infrastructure... it is a free for all.

New bridges and highways would become useless if they were to get wiped out by devastating climate change. Hence, we need to public investments in sources of renewable clean energy to replace fossil fuel carbon emitting energy in order to save our infrastructure from devastating climate change. Also, there would be no free for all if Build Back Better's job creation, Middle-class tax cuts, and lower costs to working families were to all be paid for by making the tax code fairer and making the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share of taxes.

 

[Kenny]

New bridges and highways would become useless if they were to get wiped out by devastating climate change. Hence, we need to public investments in sources of renewable clean energy to replace fossil fuel carbon emitting energy in order to save our infrastructure from devastating climate change. Also, there would be no free for all if Build Back Better's job creation, Middle-class tax cuts, and lower costs to working families were to all be paid for by making the tax code fairer and making the wealthiest and large corporations pay their fair share of taxes.

???

With the pork list that was given... all we can do is say "climate change"? And when the US goes into hyper inflation (because we just printed more money) - do you think people are going to care if in 30 years we have an extra .5 degrees?

Could you please say that to your grandchildren when they can't buy food because there is no money and you said "who cares... just spend and spend"?

 

[Revoltingest]

Any car moves forward on an incline until it reaches the stopping point.

How many people have said the same things in their personal finances?

View attachment 56068

All of these people most likely said "but we have been a powerhouse">

Why use sound financial management when we've managed
to muddle thru doing the wrong thing for decades?
Cuz the chickens will come home to roost.
It could be that paying down interest has prevented
us from having a better infrastructure & universal
health care.

 

[Kenny]

Why use sound financial management when we've managed
to muddle thru doing the wrong thing for decades?
Cuz the chickens will come home to roost.
It could be that paying down interest has prevented
us from having a better infrastructure & universal
health care.

so simple... so easy to understand.

 

[metis]

I just picked the first one that I found....

the figures are, however, correct if I am not mistaken.

But the interest is all the things that you want (Christmas list)

Again, are we going to invest in our future or not?

We are a wealthy country that can do wonders if we put our minds to it, so imo we need to get off our duff and invest in our future and the future of our kids and grandkids. Our problems, and we do have some very serious ones, will not solve themselves, and our personal greed can and will come back to haunt us as all empires eventually fall, almost always from the inside first. What worked in the past doesn't always mean they'll work in the future, so we do have to evaluate what we're doing at any point in time.

 

[metis]

do you think people are going to care if in 30 years we have an extra .5 degrees?

They had better! And it's more than that, btw [it's almost 2 F, btw]. Please consider getting a subscription to Scientific American and pay far less attention to political sites on matters like this.

 

[Suave]

???

With the pork list that was given... all we can do is say "climate change"? And when the US goes into hyper inflation (because we just printed more money) - do you think people are going to care if in 30 years we have an extra .5 degrees?

Could you please say that to your grandchildren when they can't buy food because there is no money and you said "who cares... just spend and spend"?

I seriously doubt there'd be any hyperinflation if the national debt were to grow less than the Gross Domestic Product. The national debt to Gross Domestic Product ratio would be reduced if the wealthiest Americans and corporations were to simply pay their fair share of taxes.

I fear even just a half degree Celsius of global warming would adversely effect the probability of extreme and destructive weather events like floods, droughts, storms, and heat waves.

 

[Kenny]

Again, are we going to invest in our future or not?

We are a wealthy country that can do wonders if we put our minds to it, so imo we need to get off our duff and invest in our future and the future of our kids and grandkids. Our problems, and we do have some very serious ones, will not solve themselves, and our personal greed can and will come back to haunt us as all empires eventually fall, almost always from the inside first. What worked in the past doesn't always mean they'll work in the future, so we do have to evaluate what we're doing at any point in time.

Let me put it this way, Metis.

My wife and I have pinched, squeezed, and lived a very conservative lifestyle. Because we have lived conservatively, we can now help our children like never before. If we had "lived the lifestyle" of most people, we would not have been in the position to help our kids and grandkids.

So....

YES!!!!!!!

Let's invest in our children and grandchildren's future by not overspending and, in essence, putting their future in hoc by creating an interest expense that they cannot pay.

When I leave this earth, because we scrinched and pinched, they WILL have a better future.

 

[Kooky]

absolutely! But not penalize them either for being responsible.

You guys do tax the workers who are directly responsible for creating all your wealth, don't you?
So why wouldn't you tax a bunch of rich guys who got away nearly scot free so far?

 

[Kenny]

I seriously doubt there'd be any hyperinflation if the national debt were to grow less than the Gross Domestic Product. The national debt to Gross Domestic Product ratio would be reduced if the wealthiest Americans and corporations were to simply pay their fair share of taxes.

I fear even just a half degree Celsius of global warming would adversely effect the probability of extreme and destructive weather events like floods, droughts, storms, and heat waves.

And your crystal ball says that how?

Rich Brazil! I bet you they say "it will never happen"

US trade deficit:

US interest:

It doesn't take a college education to see the writing on the wall.

 

[Kenny]

You guys do tax the workers who are directly responsible for creating all your wealth, don't you?
So why wouldn't you tax a bunch of rich guys who got away nearly scot free so far?

?????????????

I didn't say let them go scot free.

 

[Suave]

Why use sound financial management when we've managed
to muddle thru doing the wrong thing for decades?
Cuz the chickens will come home to roost.
It could be that paying down interest has prevented
us from having a better infrastructure & universal
health care.

I'm confident if the national debt were to grow less than the Gross Domestic Product, then interest rates and inflation could remain low and well under control. I'd like the national debt to Gross Domestic Product ratio be lowered by getting the wealthiest Americans and corporations to simply pay their fair share of taxes.

I favor public investments in renewable clean energy sources for replacing fossil fuel carbon emitting energy in order to save our infrastructure from devastating climate change I fear even just a half degree Celsius of global warming might very well increase the risk of extreme and destructive weather events like floods, droughts, storms, and heat waves.