Big Government or Big Business?

[MysticSang'ha]

What is more easily forgivable to you? What is more tyrannical? Is either favorable for the world?

Are there other "Big" organizations that you find favorable, forgivable or frightening? Like Big Religion? Big Lobbyists? Big Agriculture?

 

[Caladan]

What is more easily forgivable to you? What is more tyrannical? Is either favorable for the world?

Are there other "Big" organizations that you find favorable, forgivable or frightening? Like Big Religion? Big Lobbyists? Big Agriculture?

I tend to think that when things go 'big' it's an indication that quality drops, attention to crafty details drops, morality and respect to society and environment drop, and increasing profits becomes the ideal.

I'll use the a very basic example of a very basic product. Take beer for example, a common industrial beer of a mega corporation uses the most inane marketing stunts, but has nothing on the quality of crafted beers from smaller more attentive breweries.

I think that corporations use military strategies or even bullying tactics not unlike some foreign strategies of governments. They are at war and do what they have to do to stay at the top. Including espionage, framing, fraud, taping, treating the costumer as commodity and pressing all their buttons.

It's not surprising to see various big businesses going into bed with governments.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

When we say "Big" in these circumstance, we mean out of our or anyones control.
They are large and powerful enough to extend their influence beyond borders.
Governments and businesses act in the same way.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Nestlé
Coke a cola
And KFC
apparently some of the worst offenders for human rights violations and animal cruelty of big businesses. Coke even owns innocent smoothies now (not so "innocent")

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What is more easily forgivable to you? What is more tyrannical? Is either favorable for the world?

Are there other "Big" organizations that you find favorable, forgivable or frightening? Like Big Religion? Big Lobbyists? Big Agriculture?

I worry about both. In general, governments can be much more powerful, while businesses can be very powerful as well and tend to be much less transparent and accountable to the people affected by them.

 

[dust1n]

Generally 'power' comes consistently with large-scale-disregard for human life. Especially in the process of gaining, retaining, and defending power.

 

[Revoltingest]

What is more easily forgivable to you? What is more tyrannical? Is either favorable for the world?
Are there other "Big" organizations that you find favorable, forgivable or frightening? Like Big Religion? Big Lobbyists? Big Agriculture?

I'll take big business over big government.
When one goes bad, I can usually avoid the former but never the latter.

Big hostas are the best!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

They're both evil.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

What is more easily forgivable to you? What is more tyrannical? Is either favorable for the world?

Are there other "Big" organizations that you find favorable, forgivable or frightening? Like Big Religion? Big Lobbyists? Big Agriculture?

In a representative democracy, at least we can vote out offending politicians. CEOs have no such check on their powers. People who enable big corporations have no idea the absolute mess they are taking us toward.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Anything which allows people to have even less personal responsibility and accountability for their actions usually isn't very good.

 

[Revoltingest]

In a representative democracy, at least we can vote out offending politicians.

Not always. When the offending pol is popular with voters, you're stuck with him. Were
you happy with 8 years of Dubya? Probably about as pleased as I am with him & Obama.

CEOs have no such check on their powers. People who enable big corporations have no idea the absolute mess they are taking us toward.

If I'm miffed at Microsoft, I can buy Apple. If I'm furious at Ford, I can buy Toyota. If I'm angry at Arby's...
...you see where this is heading. Big business is at least more decentralized than big government.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

I'll take big business over big government.
When one goes bad, I can usually avoid the former but never the latter.

Like hell you can. You been keeping up with the mess in Arkansas?

That's what unchecked corporate power looks like, Revolting.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Not always. When the offending pol is more popular with voters, you're stuck with him. Were you happy with 8 years of Dubya? Probably about as pleased as I am with him & Obama.

The majority of US voters said four more years. I am not going to get off on that tangent. I will say this--as divided as this nation is, thank God that we have the right to settle the matter at the polls.

If I'm miffed at Microsoft, I can buy Apple. If I'm furious at Ford, I can buy Toyota. If I'm angry at Arby's......you see where this is heading.

No, just, no. Monopolies? Externalities? Corporate welfare? You are familiar with these terms, no?

 

[Revoltingest]

Like hell you can. You been keeping up with the mess in Arkansas?

That's what unchecked corporate power looks like, Revolting.

If I don't like Arkansas, I can move to Texas.
If I don't like Obama, there's no state I can move to avoid him.

Have you been keeping up with the mess in Iraq?

 

[Revoltingest]

The majority of US voters said four more years. I am not going to get off on that tangent. I will say this--as divided as this nation is, thank God that we have the right to settle the matter at the polls.

Perhaps you can vote for a candidate who will win, but I cannot....at least not without abandoning my values.

No, just, no. Monopolies? Externalities? Corporate welfare? You are familiar with these terms, no?

You list these terms but you don't explain why.
Are you saying that I actually cannot avoid buying from Microsoft, Ford or Arby's?
And who has a bigger monopoly than the federal government?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Combining posts.

If I don't like Arkansas, I can move to Texas.
If I don't like Obama, there's no state I can move to avoid him.

So you'd be perfectly comfortable with a corporation destroying your property rights, but lemme guess, the government--which gives those very rights power--had better not go near them?

And waah, waah about Obama. The nation spoke, and they spoke clearly. If you want a nation with more guns and less government oversight, Somalia awaits you.

Have you been keeping up with the mess in Iraq?

Speaking of oil and profits!

Perhaps you can vote for a candidate who will win, but I cannot....at least not without abandoning my values.

Nobody is preventing you from voting third-party. Why a third-party candidate stands little chance of winning most offices is a discussion best saved for another thread.

You list these terms but you don't explain why.
Are you saying that I actually cannot avoid buying from Microsoft, Ford or Arby's?
And who has a bigger monopoly than the federal government?

Let's not play games, Revolting. I am sure you know what externalities are and the fact that corporations are able to dodge their effects left and right, while third parties suffer. The Mayflower oil spill is an excellent example of this. Better regulations and enforcement--which I'm guessing you oppose--would have decreased the risk of this sort of catastrophe from happening.

 

[Revoltingest]

So you'd be perfectly comfortable with a corporation destroying your property rights.....

You got that from my posts?
Nah....I'm a big fan of property rights....but not straw men.

.....but lemme guess, the government--which gives those very rights power--had better not go near them?

We don't need "big" government to secure our constitutional rights.

And waah, waah about Obama. The nation spoke, and they spoke clearly. If you want a nation with more guns and less government oversight, Somalia awaits you.

You're taking this off topic, since the OP asked which we preferred. You like big gov.
I like small gov. You might as well get used to our differences rather than getting all huffy.

Speaking of oil and profits!

And who waged the war? Bush & Obama.
If Haliburton started it, at least I could boycott the company

Nobody is preventing you from voting third-party. Why a third-party candidate stands little chance of winning most offices is a discussion best saved for another thread.

Of course I'm able to vote for a 3rd party, but you Big Two types dominate to the extent that no one else wins.
Thus, I've no power to ditch the usual Pub or Dem. But with big companies, I can boycott them. Is this concept
so hard to accept?

Let's not play games....

What games?

...I am sure you know what externalities are and the fact that corporations are able to dodge their effects left and right, while third parties suffer. The Mayflower oil spill is an excellent example of this. Better regulations and enforcement--which I'm guessing you oppose--would have decreased the risk of this sort of catastrophe from happening.

Oh, dear....I don't seem to be making any headway explaining my preferences.
Perhaps you're just too wedded to big gov to see any merit in the alternative.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

f I'm miffed at Microsoft, I can buy Apple. If I'm furious at Ford, I can buy Toyota. If I'm angry at Arby's...
...you see where this is heading. Big business is at least more decentralized than big government.

If you don't like the fact that the blasting at the quarry next door knocks your dishes off the shelf so they smash on the floor, and you don't buy aggregate yourself, how would you go about "voting with your wallet" to make it stop?

 

[Revoltingest]

If you don't like the fact that the blasting at the quarry next door knocks your dishes off the shelf so they smash on the floor, and you don't buy aggregate yourself, how would you go about "voting with your wallet" to make it stop?

I presume that by your hypothetical scenario you seek to prove that big government is easier to
deal with than big business. Do you lefties all presume that property rights can only be secured
thru "big" government? You & Mercy are just being too silly about this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I presume that by your hypothetical scenario you seek to prove that big government is easier to deal with than big business.

And I presume by your failure to answer my question means that you don't have an answer.

Do you lefties all presume that property rights can only be secured thru "big" government? You & Mercy are just being too silly about this.

No, I think that some can be secured just fine through market forces, but sometimes, market forces alone won't do the job.