painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
outhouse said:
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Bigfoot Evidence?
- Thread starter Magic Man
- Start date
outhouse
Atheistically
first i cant prove BF is real. i understand this. I can however debate the possible evidence.
thats all im trying to do here.
a million bucks was spent trying to recreate it and it failed
harry and the hendersons was excellent as the jacks link sasquatch. it can be done.
by a couple of proffessional cowboys back in the 60's in the small town of willow creek ca?????
not a chance in my opinion
great, you possibly could for a short period but it wouldnt hold up to a scientific investigation.
This brings up a great point,,, why walk with a different gait if your faking a few seconds of grainy film shot at a distance.
Theres a good reason why this film hasnt been debunked as of yet.
thats all im trying to do here.
a million bucks was spent trying to recreate it and it failed
harry and the hendersons was excellent as the jacks link sasquatch. it can be done.
by a couple of proffessional cowboys back in the 60's in the small town of willow creek ca?????
not a chance in my opinion
great, you possibly could for a short period but it wouldnt hold up to a scientific investigation.
This brings up a great point,,, why walk with a different gait if your faking a few seconds of grainy film shot at a distance.
Theres a good reason why this film hasnt been debunked as of yet.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I've read this... it's very disappointing. Especially compared with his regular scientific work.
I suppose as an opinion piece it's ok... but it's not scientific publication quality like I would hope.
It's all pictures and opinions.. no data, no analysis, no science.
wa:do
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
You also keep throwing around this "million bucks" thing... source?
What was the million spent on? Film crews, insurance and travel eat up cash quick. I doubt any great cash was spent on a suit for a 30minuite show.
wa:do
What was the million spent on? Film crews, insurance and travel eat up cash quick. I doubt any great cash was spent on a suit for a 30minuite show.
wa:do
Meldrum is a great anthropologist but a lousy thinker when it comes to rationally analyzing his Bigfoot claims. The link is basically an essay where Meldrum confirms his biases and prejudices and interprets Bigfoot evidence in misidentifications and hoaxed prints and casts. Meldrum goes on and on about the Blue Mountain tracks yet they were casts made by notorious hoaxer Paul Freeman. Even those who accept some of Freemans molds of Bigfoot tracks acknowledge he also fabricated many- including a faked video.
This is the same Meldrum who accepted the Snookum print as genuine when it is clearly an elk impression.
This is the same Meldrum with a huge database of Bigfoot casts that still include well known hoaxed prints by Ray Wallace. (See Wallace's wooden fake on the right and the "real" cast that appears on many Bigfoot books, including Meldrum's Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science.)
Point being Meldrum sees what he wants to see and disregards any evidence that doesnt bolster his faith in the existence of Bigfoot.
outhouse
Atheistically
Patterson Footage creature proven NOT a suit, page 1
heres a link that states its 7' 2" due to a lense size error
not what im looking for but a good read.
The 'Costume' that Cannot be Re-Created
heres a link to what they came up with, source was avalible a few years back on the amount spent. im still looking.
heres a link that states its 7' 2" due to a lense size error
not what im looking for but a good read.
The 'Costume' that Cannot be Re-Created
heres a link to what they came up with, source was avalible a few years back on the amount spent. im still looking.
outhouse
Atheistically
freeman may or may not be a hoax. he never did admit fraud but controversy does surround him
Supporters from the scientific community included Grover Krantz, W. Henner Fahrenbach, Jeff Meldrum, and John Mionczynski. Fingerprint and forensics expert Jimmy Chilcutt, who has extensive knowledge regarding primate dermal ridge patterns, observed dermal ridge evidence on some of Freeman’s casts that helped convince him of the existence of an undocumented primate
Supporters from the scientific community included Grover Krantz, W. Henner Fahrenbach, Jeff Meldrum, and John Mionczynski. Fingerprint and forensics expert Jimmy Chilcutt, who has extensive knowledge regarding primate dermal ridge patterns, observed dermal ridge evidence on some of Freeman’s casts that helped convince him of the existence of an undocumented primate
From the link:
In the Patterson footage, the figure's muscles are flexing noticeably as the figure walks away. To simulate that, the BBC's costume designers in Hollywood had to create a costume that would show the same effect of flexing muscles.
Remote controlled soft-tissue prosthetics were not invented until well after 1967, so they could not be used in an honest replica of a 1967 costume. The costume had to allow the actor's own muscles to flex the outermost surface of the costume.
It was assumed the muscle bulk of the costume could be amplified to match the Patterson creature's muscle bulk, just by fluffing up the fur. There was actually no other choice. There could be no significant padding between the actor's muscles and the fabric to which the fur was attached, without interfering with visibility of the muscles flexing.
Utter nonsense. There are no flexing muscles in the Patterson film. Researchers are seeing the ambiguous display of light and shadow as recorded on 16 mm film. It's an easy next step for Bigfoot researchers to see whatever they want to see.Remote controlled soft-tissue prosthetics were not invented until well after 1967, so they could not be used in an honest replica of a 1967 costume. The costume had to allow the actor's own muscles to flex the outermost surface of the costume.
It was assumed the muscle bulk of the costume could be amplified to match the Patterson creature's muscle bulk, just by fluffing up the fur. There was actually no other choice. There could be no significant padding between the actor's muscles and the fabric to which the fur was attached, without interfering with visibility of the muscles flexing.
Outhouse, allow me to explain.... that's a picture of Wallace's son, the prints that Wallace Sr. faked are in Meldrum's Bigfoot cast database. I didn't say that was Meldrum. I've met Meldrum, I know what he looks like....
I linked to this in a previous post but Chilcutt's analysis is very weak and he himself has acknowledged that some fake prints can fool experts and some "artifacts can be created, at least under laboratory conditions, and field researchers need to take precautions.:
CSI | Experiments Cast Doubt on Bigfoot ‘Evidence’
and see Crowley's cool site:
http://orgoneresearch.com/category/bigfoot/
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I understand. Generally when I argue against theists, I'm not even arguing that god isn't real, just that their reasoning for believing is lacking.
Then they wasted a million dollars. It's really not that hard. Give me a monkey suit, and I'll recreate it.
Sure, in your opinion, but then you have a desire for this to be true. Yes, it could be done by anyone. What they accomplished in the video is nothing special. All they needed was a tall man and monkey suit.
It would hold up as well as this one has. Look, it's really not that hard. You put on a bigfoot suit and walk like you think a bigfoot would. Then people come along and like it, so they try to make up stuff about it to make it seem real.
Because you're trying to look like a bigfoot, rather than a man in a bigfoot costume. The walk of the guy in the video looks like someone trying to walk the way someone would expect a bigfoot to walk.
It doesn't have to be debunked. No one has given good reason to believe it's not a guy in a bigfoot suit.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
The problem with the supposed attempts to prove the Patterson film a hoax is that they're trying to recreate the scene in every exact detail. That is unnecessary. All we need to do is show that a convincing costume could be used and a person could recreate the stride for that distance. It doesn't have to be exactly the same. To show how Leonardo painted the Mona Lisa, I don't have to recreate it exactly, just show the technique and create something similar.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
But in this case, if someone can show that it's possible to create a similar hoax, that's all that they are proving. That is, if the Bigfoot is real and they manage to create something similar, then they are just showing that something similar can be done..... which can be said for so many things.
The analogy to Leonardo and Mona Lisa doesn't apply here because we know that both the author and the subjects actually exist. So we have a baseline to use to identify other works.
But with Bigfoot, there is no baseline because we cannot compare one piece of evidence with another and get a clear picture. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
outhouse
Atheistically
good articles about dermal ridge confusion.
I get out of that casting conditions can cause dermal ridge looking cast.
This does not discount all dermal ridges though, definatly makes picking out any real possibilities allot tougher
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I'm still waiting for scientific data showing the critter is not in the human height range.
And I don't think the "History" Channel is a good source for any evidence, for example they give their computer model bigfoot an ape-like prognathous jaw... it clearly does not have this in the film.
wa:do
And I don't think the "History" Channel is a good source for any evidence, for example they give their computer model bigfoot an ape-like prognathous jaw... it clearly does not have this in the film.
wa:do