Wirey
Fartist
Still too lightweight....& too pointy.
An appropriate dispatcher....
Now that is an implement I'd like upside my head when the time comes!
He awaits your next coughing fit:
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Bill Clinton says Obamacare is a crazy system: agree or disagree?
- Thread starter whirlingmerc
- Start date
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- Tags
- hillary campaign
He awaits your next coughing fit:
Don't care who gets credit as long as they fix it.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
I understand completely. But I have been at my current job for 10 years. Roughly 5 before Obamacare and 5 after. When I took the job we had posh health insurance that covered hospital stays 100% and had minuscule $5 co-pays. In the first 5 years the cost went up roughly 40% and the co-pays on hospitals went from 0-$500. Doctors visits and ER visits cost went up almost 5-10 times what they were (from $5 to 50 and from $25 to 150). In the second 5 years everything went up almost the same again. I am now paying 220% of what I was 10 years ago and have large co-pays on everything.
I would agree that Obamacare didn't help with cost. But I don't think it hurt much either. Obamacare essentially covered more people but did almost nothing for the cost. The few things it did do were offset by the increased coverage rules.
This is what makes single payer so important. You cannot fix a system if you have no control over it.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
Problem is, as long as no one party has complete control, nothing will change.
Unfortunately, you are most likely correct.
It's not all bad.
Sometimes change is for the worse.
There's something to be said for slow change.
It inhibits wrongful reaction to the passions of the moment.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
or is it back to Saul Alinski's strategy 'the issue is not the issue, it's an excuse to gain power' and control a seventh of the US economy
( and ...oh by the way... by the same people who couldn;t even make a health care web site work )
In Hillary health care of the 90's it would have been illegal to use your own money to pay for medical services and companies were limited in what insurance benefits they could offer. Not sure that's an improvement and Hillary herself had to distance herself from her own plan calling it a discussion doc
(and left wing Senator Moynehan form NY called it a financial fantasy while Hillary whined about the opposition being a right wing conspirasy )
( and ...oh by the way... by the same people who couldn;t even make a health care web site work )
In Hillary health care of the 90's it would have been illegal to use your own money to pay for medical services and companies were limited in what insurance benefits they could offer. Not sure that's an improvement and Hillary herself had to distance herself from her own plan calling it a discussion doc
(and left wing Senator Moynehan form NY called it a financial fantasy while Hillary whined about the opposition being a right wing conspirasy )
I think Bill C. is making the case that Obamacare is about as crazy as what we had before.
I think that is accurate.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I've thought about it a lot. If single payer is anything like what VA has, and VA has visible issues, then I would think single payer is ripe for issues and would be considered a huge let down for many people, while constantly being spun (for at least 3 years) as 'greatest thing evah.'
To me, the costs are just over the top ridiculous in the market. And thing is, it isn't so much costs to the consumer, but that gets passed along. Whenever I'm in a room where I'm moments away from being examined by a doctor, I like to glance around and guess the price of objects in the room. There's what I think is most reasonable to pay, and then what I guess the marketed price is. Like something as simple as scale that weighs people, would be reasonable to be around $100, and I'm thinking it is marketed to hospital at around $10,000 each, or $1000 each if buying hundreds of them at once.
I think having insurance in the market explains why costs go up, because consumers (with insurance) really don't care what anything costs as long as it is covered. If auto insurance meant you could take your car in for service/repair, pay a co-pay and the rest is covered by insurance, I would think that would play out eventually the same as health care. For 10 to 50 years, people would love it. Then when premiums are $5000 a year plus $100 co-pays for each visit, suddenly that free market thing they had back in 2016 would be appealing.
I think that is accurate.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I've thought about it a lot. If single payer is anything like what VA has, and VA has visible issues, then I would think single payer is ripe for issues and would be considered a huge let down for many people, while constantly being spun (for at least 3 years) as 'greatest thing evah.'
To me, the costs are just over the top ridiculous in the market. And thing is, it isn't so much costs to the consumer, but that gets passed along. Whenever I'm in a room where I'm moments away from being examined by a doctor, I like to glance around and guess the price of objects in the room. There's what I think is most reasonable to pay, and then what I guess the marketed price is. Like something as simple as scale that weighs people, would be reasonable to be around $100, and I'm thinking it is marketed to hospital at around $10,000 each, or $1000 each if buying hundreds of them at once.
I think having insurance in the market explains why costs go up, because consumers (with insurance) really don't care what anything costs as long as it is covered. If auto insurance meant you could take your car in for service/repair, pay a co-pay and the rest is covered by insurance, I would think that would play out eventually the same as health care. For 10 to 50 years, people would love it. Then when premiums are $5000 a year plus $100 co-pays for each visit, suddenly that free market thing they had back in 2016 would be appealing.