Bizarre Sayings of Paul

[wellwisher]

Paul was a highly educated Jew who was originally one of the worse critics of Jesus and the early Christians. As an analogy, he was like a modern day card carrying Democrat, who hated Trump, and would try to undermine and sabotage anyway he could, even if it meant lying and cheating.

One day he had a vision, which changed him to his core, and he became a very strong supporter of Christianity. His biggest claim to fame was going to Rome, were he addressed the Roman Senate. He was very intelligent and very articulate. He was put to death shortly thereafter, since killing high level Christians was the thing to do back then. He was so effective, he needed to be condemned, censored and then killed.

Paul had a unique way of looking at things, that was a combination of his Jewish education and the Living or Holy Spirit within him. He was chosen to plead the case of the Christians to Caesar. He was told not to plan in advance, but he would know what to say, when the time came.

 

[SugarOcean]

Wha... these theories appear a lot in the same by grace alone church. The words
of Jesus differ little from those of Paul. If anything Jesus was harsher and more
narrow minded. I have the figures if you are interested, but in a Red Letter Bible
about half of all Jesus' sayings involve works, requirements and judgements.
This is figure is almost identical to Paul's.

Not true.

Paul's Contradictions of Jesus

The bottom line is there are requirements for salvation - it's not merely a gift,
and you can lose it easily.

That is patently false.

People that think that are reading Saul's epistles (letters) and do not comprehend what he's saying.
Saul taught that people can fall from grace if they lead legalistic lives while in the faith.
Salvation is God's gift. And no one can take us from his hand. When no one can remove us from God's hand, that would also mean we cannot remove ourselves. Because God knew who's names would be written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world. And those names shall never be removed from there.

 

[PruePhillip]

Not true.

Paul's Contradictions of Jesus



That is patently false.

People that think that are reading Saul's epistles (letters) and do not comprehend what he's saying.
Saul taught that people can fall from grace if they lead legalistic lives while in the faith.
Salvation is God's gift. And no one can take us from his hand. When no one can remove us from God's hand, that would also mean we cannot remove ourselves. Because God knew who's names would be written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world. And those names shall never be removed from there.

Works
People who feel that Works are not necessary, by default, either can't enter into the
experiences of people in the bible, or having gone through these experiences, are offended.
By necessity, the story of bible people remains nothing more than stories because they
can't relate to the experiences God's people went through.

But, you are right, sort of, if you declare my figures are incorrect. I checked
up on the ones I personally did.

23% of Matthew's Gospel is concerned with works.
20% of Mark's Gospel is concerned with works.
26% of Luke's Gospel is concerned with works.
8% of John's Gospel is concerned with works.

Revelations and the message of Jesus to the
seven churches hasn't been itemized yet. These
verses give quite a high "works" count for sure.
And many people in these churches were simply
wasting their time being there because they did
not have salvation.

65% of Romans is concerned with works.
45% of Ephesians is concerned with works.
72% of Titus is concerned with works.
72% of 1 Corinthians is concerned with works.
48% of 2 Corinthians is concerned with works.
58% of Philippians' is concerned with works.

 

[SugarOcean]

Works
People who feel that Works are not necessary, by default, either can't enter into the
experiences of people in the bible, or having gone through these experiences, are offended.
By necessity, the story of bible people remains nothing more than stories because they
can't relate to the experiences God's people went through.

But, you are right, sort of, if you declare my figures are incorrect. I checked
up on the ones I personally did.

23% of Matthew's Gospel is concerned with works.
20% of Mark's Gospel is concerned with works.
26% of Luke's Gospel is concerned with works.
8% of John's Gospel is concerned with works.

Revelations and the message of Jesus to the
seven churches hasn't been itemized yet. These
verses give quite a high "works" count for sure.
And many people in these churches were simply
wasting their time being there because they did
not have salvation.

65% of Romans is concerned with works.
45% of Ephesians is concerned with works.
72% of Titus is concerned with works.
72% of 1 Corinthians is concerned with works.
48% of 2 Corinthians is concerned with works.
58% of Philippians' is concerned with works.

You "personally did those" at this site that you copied and pasted from?
Young minister dismissed preaching James' Works (Fake news) | Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth')

 

[PruePhillip]

You "personally did those" at this site that you copied and pasted from?
Young minister dismissed preaching James' Works (Fake news) | Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth')

Yes I did, under the alias "Bert" some years ago.
Still haven't finished the figures yet.

 

[PruePhillip]

You "personally did those" at this site that you copied and pasted from?
Young minister dismissed preaching James' Works (Fake news) | Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth')

As an aside, I hope I mentioned that saved-by-grace people don't like
the book of James. Some say it should be removed, or "shifted" to
the apocrypha collection. I understand this is the James who was the
brother of Jesus - he ought to know.

ps I like the Trump graphic. It's actually more true than some might
give it credit for.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

A very odd choice of phrase considering what "rulers" did to Jesus and John the Baptist. Not to mention Herods alleged antics.

Quite odd considering what he may have did to James and John, the Sons of Zebedee.

I am a Jew, born in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia. But I grew up here in Jerusalem where I was a student of Gamaliel and was taught to follow every single law of our ancestors. In fact, I was just as eager to obey God as any of you are today.

I made trouble for everyone who followed the Lord's Way, and I even had some of them killed. I had others arrested and put in jail. I didn't care if they were men or women. The high priest and all the council members can tell you this is true. They even gave me letters to the Jewish leaders in Damascus, so that I could arrest people there and bring them to Jerusalem to be punished. Acts of the Apostles 22:3-5

 

[The Reverend Bob]

As an aside, I hope I mentioned that saved-by-grace people don't like
the book of James.

Then they probably don't like what the Synoptic Gospels because James is reiterating what Jesus taught in them. There is practically no theology or Christology in James, it is a homily on how to treat others.

 

[SugarOcean]

As an aside, I hope I mentioned that saved-by-grace people don't like
the book of James. Some say it should be removed, or "shifted" to
the apocrypha collection. I understand this is the James who was the
brother of Jesus - he ought to know.

ps I like the Trump graphic. It's actually more true than some might
give it credit for.

As a direct address, you should never presume peoples denominational affiliation. Especially when you're wrong about scripture.

 

[SugarOcean]

Yes I did, under the alias "Bert" some years ago.
Still haven't finished the figures yet.

You're suppose to link the source you copy and past from. Further, you should substantiate where you get your figures from.

 

[PruePhillip]

You're suppose to link the source you copy and past from. Further, you should substantiate where you get your figures from.

Oh, okay. I "simply" went through the chapters and counted the verses.
With a copy of each book in Word I colored any verse which was a
commandment or exhortation.
It's slightly easier with a red letter bible.
After doing all this someone pointed out that others have done this
already - our figures vary a few percent here and there.

ie, Titus
46 verses
13 verses are not works related
33 are work related.
72% works related.

All this underscores that a lot is required. Yet in Titus we read"
5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
[7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This trips people up. They read this as nullifying the 33 works verses somehow. Our works don't save
us, but we read "which we have done." And as James puts it, there must be these works in our life.

James 2
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and
had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[sooda]

Paul was a highly educated Jew who was originally one of the worse critics of Jesus and the early Christians. As an analogy, he was like a modern day card carrying Democrat, who hated Trump, and would try to undermine and sabotage anyway he could, even if it meant lying and cheating.

One day he had a vision, which changed him to his core, and he became a very strong supporter of Christianity. His biggest claim to fame was going to Rome, were he addressed the Roman Senate. He was very intelligent and very articulate. He was put to death shortly thereafter, since killing high level Christians was the thing to do back then. He was so effective, he needed to be condemned, censored and then killed.

Paul had a unique way of looking at things, that was a combination of his Jewish education and the Living or Holy Spirit within him. He was chosen to plead the case of the Christians to Caesar. He was told not to plan in advance, but he would know what to say, when the time came.

I wonder if his epiphany on the road to Damascus was more a political eureka.

 

[Politesse]

About the Cretans:

Consider that the God of the Hebrew Scriptures called down genocidal judgements on many peoples, often going so far as to clarify that slaves and infants are in no way immune from his wrath. Paul's statements about Crete are a bit bigoted by modern standards, but are they surprising for someone who was raised in an imperial culture subject to another imperial culture?

 

[sooda]

About the Cretans:

Consider that the God of the Hebrew Scriptures called down genocidal judgements on many peoples, often going so far as to clarify that slaves and infants are in no way immune from his wrath. Paul's statements about Crete are a bit bigoted by modern standards, but are they surprising for someone who was raised in an imperial culture subject to another imperial culture?

Well said. It is weird.. I wonder if he really said it? There is a lot of really stupid stuff in scripture if you slow down and think.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

About the Cretans:

Consider that the God of the Hebrew Scriptures called down genocidal judgements on many peoples, often going so far as to clarify that slaves and infants are in no way immune from his wrath. Paul's statements about Crete are a bit bigoted by modern standards, but are they surprising for someone who was raised in an imperial culture subject to another imperial culture?

Here is a tidbit. The guy Paul is quoting is a Cretan. Think about that and the quote

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If any of you can explain to us how these examples make any sense I will be grateful for your effort but it should be a rational explanation. Let the weirdness begin.
One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. Titus 1:12-13
Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. Romans 13:3
Women will be saved through childbearing 1 Timothy 2:15
From now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none 1 Corinthians 7:29
But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 7:40
I have to brag. There is nothing to be gained by it, but I must brag about the visions and other things that the Lord has shown me. I know about one of Christ's followers who was taken up into the third heaven 14 years ago. I don't know if the man was still in his body when it happened, but God certainly knows.
As I said, only God really knows if this man was in his body at the time. But he was taken up into paradise, where he heard things too wonderful to tell. I will brag about that man, but not about myself, except to say how weak I am. 2 Corinthians 12:1-5
I do not permit a woman to teach. 1 Timothy 2:9
We also gave you this rule: If you don't work, you don't eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:10............

I find it is context and setting that should be taken into consideration:
* In Bible days, (Bible speak, so to speak) in the Greek the word Cretan was synonymous with being liar.....
Titus 1:10-12 was Paul speaking from the words of an ancient poet Epimenides of the 6th century BC /BCE.
* Yes, obey the law and we need Not fear the authorities.
Who was ever arrested for displaying the fruitage of God's spirit found at Galatians 5:22-23.
* By women having children their focus could be on their children rather than be busybodies in other peoples affairs, so in that sense having children would be their salvation, deliverance, rescue from wrong doings.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12
* Being as if one had no wife was in a spiritual sense. Fleshly desires would Not be the main thing.
* The 3rd heaven is the 3rd heaven of 2 Peter 3:13
- The 1st heaven (verse 5)was the heaven of Noah's day the heaven of OLD.
- The 2nd heaven (verse 7) is the heaven from Noah's day to our day or the heavens of NOW.
- The 3rd heaven is the NEW heaven under Christ's 1,000-year reign over earth being the heavens of NEW.
A NEW governing heavens over mankind on earth when righteousness will dwell on earth - Proverbs 2:21-22
* Yes, in Scripture women are Not to be elders in the congregation, men do that spiritual teaching work.
- see 1 Timothy 3:1-13.
* Right, if a person is Not willing to work then it is his fault to be without food.
The Greek has at 2 Thessalonians 3:10 saying if anyone Not is willing to be working..... 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12
So, if an able bodied person is Not willing to work then he is causing his own problem.
Jesus promised those who follow him will have life's necessities as per Matthew 6:33-34.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Actually, John the Baptist was not put to death by the state, but by Herod at the behest of his illegitimate wife.
Herod had taken the wife of his brother Philip as his own, and John had spoken openly about the morality of the relationship. Herod's wife Herodias despised John and wanted him dead. When it was Herod's birthday celebration, her daughter's dancing so pleased the King that he vowed to give her whatever she asked.....when she consulted her mother, she was told to ask for the head of John the Baptist on a platter. It was personal. Herod could not go back on his word in front of all his attendees.
Jesus too was not really put to death by the state either. Pilate found him not guilty of any capital crime and offered to release him. When the Jews threatened his political career, he washed his hands of the blood of Jesus and handed him over to the Jews. So in neither case was the state responsible for the murders. It was representatives of the state going against the law by executing innocent men for very personal reasons.

I find the ^ above ^ ties in nicely with Deuteronomy 21:1-9 because those unfaithful Jews were culpable in failing in community responsibility to bring Jesus to Justice - Acts of the Apostles 2:22-23; Acts of the Apostles 3:15

 

[Neutral Name]

If any of you can explain to us how these examples make any sense I will be grateful for your effort but it should be a rational explanation. Let the weirdness begin.

One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. This testimony is true. Titus 1:12-13

Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. Romans 13:3

Women will be saved through childbearing 1 Timothy 2:15

From now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none 1 Corinthians 7:29

But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 7:40

I have to brag. There is nothing to be gained by it, but I must brag about the visions and other things that the Lord has shown me. I know about one of Christ's followers who was taken up into the third heaven 14 years ago. I don't know if the man was still in his body when it happened, but God certainly knows.
As I said, only God really knows if this man was in his body at the time. But he was taken up into paradise, where he heard things too wonderful to tell. I will brag about that man, but not about myself, except to say how weak I am. 2 Corinthians 12:1-5

I do not permit a woman to teach. 1 Timothy 2:9

We also gave you this rule: If you don't work, you don't eat. 2 Thessalonians 3:10

Wow! That's crazy. I'm thinking he was manic depressive.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

* In Bible days, (Bible speak, so to speak) in the Greek the word Cretan was synonymous with being liar.....
Titus 1:10-12 was Paul speaking from the words of an ancient poet Epimenides of the 6th century BC /BCE.

Epimenides is a Cretan.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Wow! That's crazy. I'm thinking he was manic depressive.

To be honest much of what is attributed to Paul is either outright forgeries such as the pastoral letters or interpolation such most of Romans and both Corinthians. In fact most of Paul might be forgeries and interpolation.

Why Many Interpolations in Paul's Letters are Very Likely