Black Pope

[Shiranui117]

I was thinking the same thing but the skin color factor was not documented. Maybe though? I see that as being a bigger deal back then if it really happened.

Actually, back in the Roman era, things were less racist. No one cared about the color of your skin. And slavery certainly wasn't based on ethnic lines, unlike in 18th- and 19th-century America. If you were a person who lived in the Roman Empire, your skin or culture didn't matter.

 

[Shiranui117]

A woman pope?
They can't even be priests and you think there could be a woman pope?

Ha, It'll never, ever, ever happen.

I would agree. And I actually hope it doesn't. Not because I hate women, but because it is a traditional teaching of the Church. There have never been women in any holy orders above the deaconate, and I don't see any reason to change it now. Reviving the order of deaconess might be interesting, and I can see that happening--depending on the exact function of deaconesses vis-a-vis the distribution of the Eucharist, I'd prefer deaconesses distributing communion during the Roman Mass over "extraordinary ministers"--more like "ordinary ministers," with how many of them there are... A little more inclusiveness never hurt anyone, sure. But sticking to your guns on what you've been teaching for 2,000 years straight is an admirable thing, and no one should be advocating that the Church changes her teachings.

 

[fantome profane]

But sticking to your guns on what you've been teaching for 2,000 years straight is an admirable thing, and no one should be advocating that the Church changes her teachings.

No it isn't, and yes they should.

 

[Shiranui117]

No it isn't, and yes they should.

If you want to destroy the Church, then sure, you'd say that.

The thing people don't realise: Christianity is an orthodoxic, and not orthopraxic, faith. If the 2000-year-old constant teachings change, then the entire religion crumbles to the ground.

There are currently two types of Christianity that are thriving: The new, low-church Protestant denominations which have very few hard and fast teachings and leave everything else open to personal opinion, and the Apostolic Churches who have refused to give in to the whims of popular culture and stuck to their guns like people who actually have integrity. The mainline Protestant denominations who are going wishy-washy in an attempt to satisfy the ever-fickle popular opinion are cascading like a house of so many cards.

As soon as a church starts changing foundational teachings, it's already doomed. The only Christian denominations which will survive are the ones who have a small number of teachings which will never meet adverse public opinion, and the ones who refuse to change any of the teachings they were built on.

 

[fantome profane]

If you want to destroy the Church, then sure, you'd say that.

I would not say I want that. But I don't really care one way or the other. There are many things to admire in the Catholic church, but misogyny is not admirable, regardless of how the tradition of misogyny is. And if the Church cannot survive without being misogynic then they will not likely survive much longer. I really don't care which way it goes.

 

[Shiranui117]

I would not say I want that. But I don't really care one way or the other. There are many things to admire in the Catholic church, but misogyny is not admirable, regardless of how the tradition of misogyny is. And if the Church cannot survive without being misogynic then they will not likely survive much longer. I really don't care which way it goes.

Not allowing women to become priests or bishops has nothing to do with misogyny. Especially when the most venerated mere mortal human is the Virgin Mary, and when some of the most-read mystics and beloved Saints are women as well. Women are free to do just about anything in the Church, aside from two positions. They can be on parish councils, lead Bible studies, give talks and presentations, teach the faithful, manage any number of affairs in the Church, and even preach the sermon instead of the priest or deacon. The fact that women have never been priests or bishops is not a show of misogyny in the slightest. It's just how it has always been in the Church, ever since Pentecost.

 

[iamsharky789]

Not allowing women to become priests or bishops has nothing to do with misogyny. Especially when the most venerated mere mortal human is the Virgin Mary, and when some of the most-read mystics and beloved Saints are women as well. Women are free to do just about anything in the Church, aside from two positions. They can be on parish councils, lead Bible studies, give talks and presentations, teach the faithful, manage any number of affairs in the Church, and even preach the sermon instead of the priest or deacon. The fact that women have never been priests or bishops is not a show of misogyny in the slightest. It's just how it has always been in the Church, ever since Pentecost.

Are you against it? What if thana was elected the next pope?

 

[Shiranui117]

Are you against it? What if thana was elected the next pope?

It wouldn't happen. Only Catholics in good standing with the Church can be elected Pope, and a woman would never be elected. To ask if a woman would be elected Pope is to ask if the sky would fall down and break. It is quite simply an impossibility. Not even Pope Francis supports a woman priesthood. In fact, he, like his predecessors, has explicitly waved away the idea as an impossibility.

 

[iamsharky789]

It wouldn't happen. Only Catholics in good standing with the Church can be elected Pope, and a woman would never be elected. To ask if a woman would be elected Pope is to ask if the sky would fall down and break. It is quite simply an impossibility. Not even Pope Francis supports a woman priesthood. In fact, he, like his predecessors, has explicitly waved away the idea as an impossibility.

Give it time, things will change. Maybe not soon but it will.

 

[Shiranui117]

Give it time, things will change. Maybe not soon but it will.

There are many things I can see being changed in Catholicism--the reintroduction of the married priesthood and the order of deaconess being two. But priestesses and female bishops... I honestly can't ever see that happening in the Catholic Church. Perhaps someone knows something that I'm missing, but I've never seen any indication of it ever even being possible in the future.

 

[fantome profane]

Not allowing women to become priests or bishops has nothing to do with misogyny. Especially when the most venerated mere mortal human is the Virgin Mary, and when some of the most-read mystics and beloved Saints are women as well. Women are free to do just about anything in the Church, aside from two positions. They can be on parish councils, lead Bible studies, give talks and presentations, teach the faithful, manage any number of affairs in the Church, and even preach the sermon instead of the priest or deacon. The fact that women have never been priests or bishops is not a show of misogyny in the slightest. It's just how it has always been in the Church, ever since Pentecost.

Ok, so can you explain to us why you find this policy "admirable"? Aside from the fact that it has been policy for a long time. Certainly 2000 years ago (1900 years ago, 1800 years ago etc) this policy was new (or "newish). Was this policy admirable when it was not so old? Why is it admirable?

 

[Shiranui117]

Ok, so can you explain to us why you find this policy "admirable"? Aside from the fact that it has been policy for a long time. Certainly 2000 years ago (1900 years ago, 1800 years ago etc) this policy was new (or "newish). Was this policy admirable when it was not so old? Why is it admirable?

I think you misread me. I'm not saying the policy of a male-only priesthood and episcopacy is admirable--it just is. I'm saying that, in the face of so many other Christian denominations selling out and watering down their traditions and teachings in order to try to appeal to the modern crowds, often without success, it's amazing to see a Church which has come under so much attack to have the stones to hold fast to the teachings it has always maintained. It is a mark of consistency and honesty--two traits so often lacking in modern society.

 

[iamsharky789]

I think you misread me. I'm not saying the policy of a male-only priesthood and episcopacy is admirable--it just is. I'm saying that, in the face of so many other Christian denominations selling out and watering down their traditions and teachings in order to try to appeal to the modern crowds, often without success, it's amazing to see a Church which has come under so much attack to have the stones to hold fast to the teachings it has always maintained. It is a mark of consistency and honesty--two traits so often lacking in modern society.

Holding on to wrong and misguided beliefs just makes the platform to fall that much higher.

 

[Shiranui117]

Holding on to wrong and misguided beliefs just makes the platform to fall that much higher.

I'm still failing to see how it's wrong and misguided, especially when you look at how influential so many women have been in the Church, without any of them ever having been allowed to become priests or bishops. It doesn't hold them back in the Church to the slightest degree.

Again, is someone picking up something that I'm not? I honestly don't know how it would be possible for women to become priests and bishops in the future. Anyone care to clue me in here?

 

[Sees]

I'm still failing to see how it's wrong and misguided, especially when you look at how influential so many women have been in the Church, without any of them ever having been allowed to become priests or bishops. It doesn't hold them back in the Church to the slightest degree.

Again, is someone picking up something that I'm not? I honestly don't know how it would be possible for women to become priests and bishops in the future. Anyone care to clue me in here?

 

[Mister Emu]

Is there a rule that the keys to heaven can never be passed to a woman?

Yes.

Yeah, there will probably be a woman Pope eventually.

No, there will never be a female Pope. Even if someone called themselves Pope, was elected by a college of Cardinals, and invested, they wouldn't be the Bishop of Rome.

I can wear a shirt made of feathers flap my arms and quack, but I'll never be a duck.

I just know it'll never be allowed in the Catholic church.

It isn't about allowance. It is about a metaphysical reality. There cannot be a female priest.

This is like if the Church said dogs will never grow rockets out of their backsides and colonize other planets. And then people tut-tut the Church for denying Dogs their organic rocket space colonization rights.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A woman pope?
They can't even be priests and you think there could be a woman pope?

Ha, It'll never, ever, ever happen.

You never know, I mean somebody probably said the same thing about a black president in the late 1700's to the early 1800's.

With social liberalism on the rise, it wouldn't surprise me. Not only is society changing, but a lot of religion is too.

 

[Thana]

You never know, I mean somebody probably said the same thing about a black president in the late 1700's to the early 1800's.

With social liberalism on the rise, it wouldn't surprise me. Not only is society changing, but a lot of religion is too.

Yes, things have changed.
The Catholic church however, will not.

I'd like them too, But I'm being realistic

 

[Alceste]

I am not sure about this but can a non-virgin become pope? Or if they are suppose to be lifelong celebates? Either way if he said he was gay after become elected pop, I think that the church would explode and it would lose power.

As I understand it, when you decide to be a priest or a nun, you get your "virginity" back, regardless of whatever you got up to before.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yes, things have changed.
The Catholic church however, will not.

I'd like them too, But I'm being realistic

As a whole, I would agree it has changed very little, if at all (which would honestly surprise me).

But while Catholicism may be immobile, Catholics are changing. Many self-proclaimed Catholics are beginning to join LGBT support groups, however it's also possible that these are just hipsters and aren't really Catholic

I guess I can't say much about Catholicism though, I only have some history with the Baptist and Lutheran church.