BLM is a hate group

[Wu Wei]

I think people should be able to sue the organizers of BLM, or any other group for the actions of it's affiliates, just like a business v
can get sued.

...I think BLM owes the diocese of Boston money for repairs!

St Patrick's Cathedral is in NYC, not Boston.

 

[epronovost]

So graffiti that are gang signs, or showing places to purchase drugs is mundane as well....because there is a lot of that too.

Well yeah of course they aren't hateful or hate signs. They are just signs of criminal activities or edgy teenagers who like to pretend they are serious criminals.

Big difference between spray painting jack loves susan on the side of a bridge abutment and spray painting on the side of a Cathedral, church, synagogue or any other place of worship for any other religion. Brigge....it gets left there, other public building, now someone has to pay to have it removed

That cost about $50 and takes 20 minutes with a pressure washer. It's cheap spay paint on stone. Vandalism is an annoyance, but it doesn't break the bank. The grenades used to disperse the protest cost more than the repair to the church by a large amount. Hell, smokers and detritus in front of the church by pedestrians cost more to the city than vandalism on that building by an order of magnitude.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm sorry, but throwing in the American revolution does not apply in my opinion. I gets thrown in all the time to justify acts of vandalism, but the Revolution was a war

It wasn't a war yet when the majority of vandalism started. And is vandalism only justified when it's against an enemy in war for you? You don't have to answer that, obviously. It's far afield of the topic.

And I am not asking what makes a hate crime, I do however find it interesting that depending on who the vandalism is against or on who commits it....we change our views

All crimes are like that. We penalize differently depending on intent. Premeditation changes thing, and whether or not they were intentionally targeting a group, especially a minority group, matters.

And part of my question was "would it be considered Mundane vandalism if it were done on a synagogue of an African American Church? Additionally would it be Mundane vandalism if the target were someone other than the police?

Yes. Mundane vandalism against churches and businesses of all stripes happen all the time. They don't get treated as a hate crime unless it's actively targetting a group with violent, threatening messages of hate, such as Nazi propaganda on Jewish buildings or POC buildings.

 

[Cooky]

Posting a thread title like that says more about the writer than BLM, imo.

BLM is supported all over the World . A BLM supporter in UK has just been honoured with a knighthood.
.....just sayin'...

Are you attempting to insult the personal character of a fellow RF member..? What business is it of yours what my character is and why do you feel entitled to begin discussing it here? Are you incapable of having a debate without resorting to fallacies..?

Are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't hail BLM is a racist? Even when BLM destroys religious and other properties?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yet the Catholic Church pays millions of dollars for what their members have done. How much does BLM pay out for their damages?

You didn't answer my questions.
Lots of large organizations which have billions if not trillions will happily pay damages and not meaningfully change things. It doesn't mean they're being altruistic, it just means they intend to keep going with status quo because they can afford paying slaps on the wrist. If I punch someone, say sorry, pay them a quarter (about the equivalence of earnings vs payout) then continue to punch people...what exactly is being done here?

Now, back to my questions. Who are you expecting to apologize really? If someone who claimed to be Catholic did a bad thing but you don't consider them to be Catholic (especially since there's no official 'membership'), would you expect the pope to apologize for their behavior? Let's be clear, the pope didn't apologize for the sexual assailant cardinals. Just for the massive coverup where the church systematically protected abusers.

 

[Starlight]

Blm has destroyed many catholic statues, catholics have also been attacked with violence and blm have killed people. It is hate crimes yes

 

[Wu Wei]

Well yeah of course they aren't hateful or hate signs. They are just signs of criminal activities or edgy teenagers who like to pretend they are serious criminals.

Ever look into the cost in money, and lives of illegal drugs in the USA....might want to...I don't see any part of that as mundane

That cost about $50 and takes 20 minutes with a pressure washer. Vandalism is an annoyance, but it doesn't break the bank. The grenades used to disperse the protest cost more than the repair to the church by a large amount. Hell, smokers and detritus in front of the church by pedestrians cost more to the city than vandalism on that building.

You get that quote and know that for sure do you? If they spray pain your house with hello kitty, is that mundane.....because it is $50 and 20 minutes?

I don't feel that it is ok to vandalize, just because it is cheap and easy to remove. You can get a paint pen for about $25, so is it ok to key your car since you can touch it up for $25 in about 10 minutes?

 

[Cooky]

You didn't answer my questions.
Lots of large organizations which have billions if not trillions will happily pay damages and not meaningfully change things. It doesn't mean they're being altruistic, it just means they intend to keep going with status quo because they can afford paying slaps on the wrist. If I punch someone, say sorry, pay them a quarter (about the equivalence of earnings vs payout) then continue to punch people...what exactly is being done here?

Now, back to my questions. Who are you expecting to apologize really? If someone who claimed to be Catholic did a bad thing but you don't consider them to be Catholic (especially since there's no official 'membership'), would you expect the pope to apologize for their behavior? Let's be clear, the pope didn't apologize for the sexual assailant cardinals. Just for the massive coverup where the church systematically protected abusers.

Bishops apologize. The diocese pays the money.

...Now, back to BLM, why are they exempt from responsibility for those openly representing that group? Why are they receiving "awards" but not paying for damages?

 

[Cooky]

Blm has destroyed many catholic statues, catholics have also been attacked with violence and blm have killed people. It is hate crimes yes

I think since they're able to accept awards, donations and other gifts, they should also be paying for repairs for the damages they cause.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Bishops apologize. The diocese pays the money.

...Now, back to BLM, why are they exempt from responsibility for those openly representing that group? Why are they receiving "awards" but not paying for damages?

You still didn't answer my questions.

 

[Cooky]

You still didn't answer my questions.

Because it's not the topic.

 

[epronovost]

Blm has destroyed many catholic statues, catholics have also been attacked with violence and blm have killed people. It is hate crimes yes

You might want to consult fact-checkers before speading rumors.

Fact-checking claim about deaths, damage from Black Lives Matter protests

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Because it's not the topic.

It is on the topic. I'm asking you whether or not anyone claiming to be part of an organization which has no formal membership should be treated as part of the organization, and who you're expecting to apologize for them? Why don't you hold other organizations, like Catholics (which has much bloodier hands than BLM could ever hope to aspire to) to the same standards?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So then people who have been the subject of systemic racism get a pass to vandalize whatever they want.......is it then ok to respond with hate by using hate then, because you were more oppressed. Frankly, IMO, all that does it produce more hate and give more people questionable reasons to justify hate/racism/vandalism/etc.

No, I stated vandalism isn't okay, but when discussing vandalism vs. systemic racism, which is the main aim of BLM protests, the matter of vandalism unrelated to a hate crime is minor.

Ever study the history of Catholicism in the USA...you may want to look into that

I realize anti-catholic sentiment was a thing, but would you consider Catholics to be a minority in danger of abuse currently? And does the history of anti-catholic abuse in this country equal the abuses of race? Also, is this even a case of anti-catholic sentiment?

 

[SomeRandom]

...Because they're vandalizing Catholic churches now. Which means they've gone off the deep end, and deserve no respect from anyone.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/protesters-vandalize-st-patricks-cathedral-new-years-day/

The protesters, affiliated with Black Lives Matter Brooklyn and Justice for George, started marching at the Stonewall Inn and had stopped at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, police sources said.

How does this act make them a hate group, exactly?
ACAB stands for All Cops are ******** not All Catholics are ********.

Graffiti is distasteful but unless it’s like a Swastika on a Synagogue or upside down crosses on Churches, I don’t see how it’s a hate crime.
Indeed calling this a hate crime trivialises the term, imo

 

[Starlight]

I think since they're able to accept awards, donations and other gifts, they should also be paying for repairs for the damages they cause.

Yes I agree. They should also apologize for all the violence and murders they are behind

 

[Starlight]

You might want to consult fact-checkers before speading rumors.

Fact-checking claim about deaths, damage from Black Lives Matter protests

It is you who do not know the real facts. It is much fake news to hide the truth

 

[Wu Wei]

All crimes are like that. We penalize differently depending on intent. Premeditation changes thing, and whether or not they were intentionally targeting a group, especially a minority group, matters.

I use to work with law and had to know them in my state, it was my job. There are different levels of crime depending on the circumstances, felonies, misdemeanors, violations etc. But I did not ask about the law or the level of crime being committed. I did say

I do however find it interesting that depending on who the vandalism is against or on who commits it....we change our views

I am talking about individual citizens, not the law

Yes. Mundane vandalism against churches and businesses of all stripes happen all the time. They don't get treated as a hate crime unless it's actively targetting a group with violent, threatening messages of hate, such as Nazi propaganda on Jewish buildings or POC buildings.

Take "hate" out of this, I was not asking whether or not it would be considered a hate crime. I was asking....."would it be considered Mundane vandalism if it were done on a synagogue of an African American Church? Additionally would it be Mundane vandalism if the target were someone other than the police?

Mundane is the word in question as mundane is defined as; "lacking interest or excitement; dull."

 

[Cooky]

It is on the topic. I'm asking you whether or not anyone claiming to be part of an organization which has no formal membership should be treated as part of the organization, and who you're expecting to apologize for them? Why don't you hold other organizations, like Catholics (which has much bloodier hands than BLM could ever hope to aspire to) to the same standards?

Because Catholics condemn the sin of sexual misconduct against minors. Does BLM also condemn the destruction of property?

...If they do not openly condemn the destruction of property, and pay for damages, and they don't have a responsible authority who is legally bound to the law, then they are no different than the mafia or any other street gang out to cause trouble.

 

[SalixIncendium]

...Because they're vandalizing Catholic churches now. Which means they've gone off the deep end, and deserve no respect from anyone.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/01/protesters-vandalize-st-patricks-cathedral-new-years-day/

The protesters, affiliated with Black Lives Matter Brooklyn and Justice for George, started marching at the Stonewall Inn and had stopped at St. Patrick’s Cathedral, police sources said.

One person painting graffiti on a facade does not make the whole movement a hate group.

Nothing like inciting drama, @Cooky.