BLM is a hate group

[Twilight Hue]

Vandalism is a mundane crime. It's not a felony. Isn't associated with jail or prison sentences. Drug trafficking and adiction isn't vandalism. These aren't mundane crimes and they have devastated your country because it was poorly handled by overly repressive government response. Writting ACAB on a church isn't a hate crime nor a major crime nor even a noteworthy event during a protest. A protest that ends with a gaffiti on a church as only damage is a protest that went well all things taken into account and is a very small price to pay for the right to protest which is essential to any healthy democracy. You wouldn't want to stiffle the ability to organise protests, large or small, on the pretext that some buildings suffer very minor and easily repaired damage or streets risk being covered in extra detritus for a few hours.



It's so mundane I wouldn't even report it to the police because that's just too tedious. If it became a common occurance I would probably report it, but not expect much action from the police since it's such a minor crime that it would probably be a the bottom of their pile unless I get my fellow citizens to get all pissy about it.



There is a difference between something "not being a big deal" and "something being okay". Damaging someone's property is bad, but such a light easily reperable damage, it's not worth making a big fuss over it. Calling a ACAB graffiti on church a hatecrime is tantamount to libel and clearly out of place. That's not what hatecrimes are and hate crimes are serious accusations. Calling it vandalism and wrong is right, but most people don't care about small time vandalism that happens once in a while during protests or day to day life. We all live with it just like we live with people jaywalking, cutting traffic, jumping stop signals, speeding, throwing trash on the floor or taking a **** in public, etc.

The High Cost of Vandalism | Q-Star Technology

 

[McBell]

So it's not a big deal then if Catholic protesters spray graffiti on a Planned Parenthood building... That's just "things going good"...

According to you, it would make Catholics a hate group...

 

[Cooky]

If we judge all groups by their worst examples, every group would be a hate group.

Except for the Quetzal Fan Club.

You have a point. Maybe they're not a hate group... Maybe they're a menace to society, like street gangs are. After all, not every gang member is a killer. Not every Mafia member is involved in illegal activities.

 

[Cooky]

According to you, it would make Catholics a hate group...

No need to worry. It doesn't happen for some reason... But why would that be, I wonder..?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No, because the Church has openly apologized to victims and their families and has taken steps toward transparency, to ensure it doesn't happen again.

...Has BLM apologized to the Catholic Church for vandalizing a historical monument/Cathedral...? Or do they just not give a darn about anything outside black lives?

You need to get your facts and your priorities right.
There is no evidence a BLM member vandalised anything.
There is nothing for them to apologise for.

After a great deal of talk there is no evidence that the Catholic church has mended it's ways. It is quite possible that an abused person daubed the church.

What is certain is that BLM has every right and very good reason to protest against what is ingrained and ongoing national institutional racism

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So it's not a big deal then if Catholic protesters spray graffiti on a Planned Parenthood building... That's just "things going good"...

I think perpetrators of this vandalism and those who would spray graffiti on Planned Parenthood should get the same treatment. If a catholic protestor graffitied a building, I would not require the diocese to make an apology on their behalf, because I don't put responsibility for an organization's behaviors on their lowest rungs (if it even is a rung, since again, there's no official low rung membership. Anyone can claim to be catholic and anyone can claim to be blm.)

 

[oldbadger]

Are you attempting to insult the personal character of a fellow RF member..? What business is it of yours what my character is and why do you feel entitled to begin discussing it here? Are you incapable of having a debate without resorting to fallacies..?

Are you suggesting that anyone who doesn't hail BLM is a racist? Even when BLM destroys religious and other properties?

Well, that seemed a bit hateful, if I may say.
My wife supports BLM. So do I.
Masses of folks do, here.
And the Brit government has just knighted a BLM supporter.

So there......!

 

[Cooky]

You need to get your facts and your priorities right.
There is no evidence a BLM member vandalised anything.
There is nothing for them to apologise for.

After a great deal of talk there is no evidence that the Catholic church has mended it's ways. It is quite possible that an abused person daubed the church.

What is certain is that BLM has every right and very good reason to protest against what is ingrained and ongoing national institutional racism

Well, they were pounding on the hoods of police cars too... So is it okay if I pound on the hoods of cars who are associated with some group I'm opposed to? Can I spray graffiti wherever I want if it's for a "good reason"?

 

[Twilight Hue]

You have a point. Maybe they're not a hate group... Maybe they're a menace to society, like street gangs are. After all, not every gang member is a killer. Not every Mafia member is involved in illegal activities.

They are a street gang. Its a good point.

 

[epronovost]

It is you who do not know the real facts. It is much fake news to hide the truth

Then quote your sources very carefully for false accusations like these are hateful and dangerous,

So it's not a big deal then if Catholic protesters spray graffiti on a Planned Parenthood building... That's just "things going good"...

If during a protest it happened and that the message printed on it was unrelated to the abortion, then no it wouldn't be a big deal. You have the right to organise pro-life protests and those protests can be accompanied with mild acts of civil disobediances without being labelled dangerous or riots. That's part of life we deal with minor problems like that all the time.

When "pro-life" groups start harrasment campaign, deceiving people searching abortion services by lying to them about being an abortion service provider, feeding them false medical/legal information, murdering doctors/nurses (or threatening to), that's when things gets more serious as the damage is a lot bigger. Hell, "pro-life" groups have the right to protest in front of abortion clinics if they want to (as long as they are at a safe distance and not blocking access to the clinic). A democratic society requires the right to protest and protests, aren't orderly things by their very nature. A democracy requires a certain amount of chaos to exist.

 

[Cooky]

I think perpetrators of this vandalism and those who would spray graffiti on Planned Parenthood should get the same treatment. If a catholic protestor graffitied a building, I would not require the diocese to make an apology on their behalf, because I don't put responsibility for an organization's behaviors on their lowest rungs (if it even is a rung, since again, there's no official low rung membership. Anyone can claim to be catholic and anyone can claim to be blm.)

Okay that's logical... What's not logical is to continue supporting Catholic protesters who would sometimes bang on the hoods of people entering a PP parking lot, or spraying graffiti on a PP building. Do you agree that in general, people should condemn such Catholic protests if they occur regularly..?

 

[Twilight Hue]

They are a street gang. Its a good point.

Black Lives Matter protesters in Utah face charges with potential life sentence

 

[epronovost]

The High Cost of Vandalism | Q-Star Technology

Seven millions is a relatively small number. The budget of LA's police force alone is more than billion dollars and the budget of the city is over 10 billions. A seven million dollar cost for vandalism can be considered high, but doesn't damage the city's budget in any important way. Not much more than people not disposing of their garbage correctly. Note that protests don't account for much of the vandalism that strikes a city on any given year. You can't pin vandalism on the head of protests or even that particular protests.

 

[Cooky]

If during a protest it happened and that the message printed on it was unrelated to the abortion, then no it wouldn't be a big deal.

What about spraying anti-abortion messages and slogans on random buildings on their way to a Planned Parenthood building. Is that not a big deal?

 

[Wu Wei]

Vandalism is a mundane crime. It's not a felony. Isn't associated with jail or prison sentences. Drug trafficking and adiction isn't vandalism. These aren't mundane crimes and they have devastated your country because it was poorly handled by overly repressive government response. Writting ACAB on a church isn't a hate crime nor a major crime nor even a noteworthy event during a protest. A protest that ends with a gaffiti on a church as only damage is a protest that went well all things taken into account and is a very small price to pay for the right to protest which is essential to any healthy democracy. You wouldn't want to stiffle the ability to organise protests, large or small, on the pretext that some buildings suffer very minor and easily repaired damage or streets risk being covered in extra detritus for a few hours.

When did I say it was a hate crime? Nor have I suggested "stifling protest". I do however think if that protest ended in spray painting of ACAB on a synagogue of an African American church that the outrage in RF posts would be palpable. And if a protest ends in vandalism, that does break the law, the protestors should be arrested regardless of race creed or color. And IMO, you are still not stifling protest.

Also never said, or even suggested, that this level of vandalism was a felony, However it can be a Misdemeanor of Felony depending on the cost of the damage. I think at best the vandalism in question (painting on the church, is a violation. And you appear to be disassociating places of drug distribution from the drug problem in the USA. I don't see them ss separate and I do not see that as mundane. Ergo, I do see some graffiti as mundane, but not all, depending on what it is trying to convey

It's so mundane I wouldn't even report it to the police because that's just too tedious. If it became a common occurance I would probably report it, but not expect much action from the police since it's such a minor crime that it would probably be a the bottom of their pile unless I get my fellow citizens to get all pissy about it.

"get all pssy about it"..... so they can't protest because they would be being "pissy" but those who painted the graffiti can...huh

There is a difference between something "not being a big deal" and "something being okay". Damaging someone's property is bad, but such a light easily reperable damage, it's not worth making a big fuss over it. Calling a ACAB graffiti on church a hatecrime is tantamount to libel and clearly out of place. That's not what hatecrimes are and hate crimes are serious accusations. Calling it vandalism and wrong is right, but most people don't care about small time vandalism that happens once in a while during protests or day to day life. We all live with it just like we live with people jaywalking, cutting traffic, jumping stop signals, speeding, throwing trash on the floor or taking a **** in public, etc.

I realize the thread name has "hate crime" in it. But I don't think I ever referred to the graffiti on the church as a hate crime so I don't understand why it is part of your response to me. I do not think I posted anything to you, or anyone else, asking about "Hate crime".

What about protests that smash store windows and damage businesses? Those do happen, and have happened in 2020.

So are you saying it is OK to deface public property but not private property? and you have not answered the question. Would it be OK to key your car, would that to be mundane, since it would only ost you $25 and about 10 minutes to fix? Is there a difference between jaywalking and keying a car.

And for the record, did not include cutting in traffic, or jumping stop signals because cutting in traffic is a generalization and rather subjective, depending on how it is done, it can be a violation in NYS. Jumping stop signals always is a violation, And both are justification for a police officer fo pull the car over.

Not exactly sure what you are referring to when you wrote "a **** in public". You may want to look into
Public Lewdness: NY Penal Law 245.00 which is a class B misdemeanor that could get you up to 90 days in jail

 

[Quetzal]

You have a point. Maybe they're not a hate group... Maybe they're a menace to society, like street gangs are. After all, not every gang member is a killer. Not every Mafia member is involved in illegal activities.

Why are they a menace?

 

[Sunstone]

BLM? A hate group? My Gods, I knew it! What has the Bureau of Land Management done now?

 

[epronovost]

What about spraying anti-abortion messages and slogans on random buildings on their way to a Planned Parenthood building. Is that not a big deal?

No that would not be a big deal. It probably happens once in while during such protest and we don't hear much about it precisely because it's not a big deal. If the only damage after a protest are a few grafitti quickly removed by the city, then things went fairly well, especially when we all know what happens when protest turn bad. People are killed or injured, buildings and cars are on fire, etc. A "pro-life" protest like that would be mild compared to their bombing campaign of the abortion clinics and the murders of doctor and nurses.

 

[Left Coast]

If conservatives were as upset about unarmed people being killed by police as they are about protestors spray painting buildings, policing nationwide would've already been transformed.

 

[Sunstone]

If conservatives were as upset about unarmed people being killed by police as they are about protestors spray painting buildings, policing nationwide would've already been transformed.

But are unarmed people property? I mean, why would you want to protect them?