Brahman and the Advaita Vision

[Haridas]

Lord shiva and Krishna are one, sorry but the Vedas trump the Bhagavad Gita

Bhagavad Gita explains the essence of Vedas that is even what the greatest advaitin Sankaracarya taught. Above is simply your opinion.

" Truth is one, sages call it by different names. "
-Rig Veda

What you show is...
Rig Veda 1.164.46,
Indraṃ mitraṃ varuṇamaghnimāhuratho divyaḥ sa suparṇo gharutmān,
ekaṃ sad viprā bahudhā vadantyaghniṃ yamaṃ mātariśvānamāhuḥ
"They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garuda.
To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan."

This simply indicates that the Supreme has unlimited names and that He can have names of devas too. Some of those names from the verse above can even be found on Vishnu Sahasranama(1000 names of Vishnu).
But by this verse you seem to mean is that Vishnu and Shiva are one. But you ignored this verse from same Rig Veda 7.40.5
asya devasya milhuso vaya visnoresasya prabhrthe havirbhih
vide hi rudro rudriyam mahitvam yasistam vartirasvinaviravat
"With offerings I propitiate the branches of this swift-moving God, the bounteous Vishnu. Hence Rudra gained his Rudra-strength: O Asvins, ye sought the house that hath celestial viands."
This verse clearly says Rudra gets his strength by propitiating Vishnu.
Also this verse says Vishnu is Supreme:
dādhāra dakṣamuttamamaharvidaṃ vrajaṃ ca viṣṇuḥ sakhivānaporṇute
"Viṣṇu hath power supreme and might that finds the day" (Rig Veda 1:156:4)

Also your opinion that Vishnu=Shiva violates many verses from Vedic literature and here's just a few:
"Narayana desired to create people. Because of this thought, Soul (prana) rose from him. Mind and all body parts, sky, air, light, water and the earth which can carry all these created beings took their form. From Narayana, Brahma was born. From Narayana, Rudra (Shiva) was born. From Narayana, Indra was born .From Narayana those people who rule these human beings were born. From Narayana, the twelve suns, eleven Rudras, Eight Vasus and all those meters (for writing) were born. All these function because of Narayana. All these end in Narayana. Thus is read, the Upanishads of Rig Veda."(Narayana Upanishad)
In the Moksha-dharma Krishna also says,
prajapatim ca rudram capy
aham eva srijami vai
tau hi mam na vijanito
mama maya-vimohitau
“The patriarchs, Shiva and others are created by Me, though they do not know that they are created by Me because they are deluded by My illusory energy.”
"Then we shall expound the Mahopanishad. They say Narayana was alone. There were not Brahma, Shiva, Waters, Fire and Soma, Heaven and Earth, Stars, Sun and Moon. He could not be happy" (Maha Upanishad I-1-4)
agnirvai devanamavamo vishnuh paramah tadantara sarva devatah
"Agni is the lowest and Vishnu is the highest among devas. All other gods occupy positions that are in between." (Aitareya Brahmana 1.1.1)

and the Hare Krishna Dvaitas go to

Hare Krishnas don't follow dvaita philosophy. They follow Achintya Bheda Abheda so get you facts right sir.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Before creation of the elements (i.e. sound/space) there cant be any size!!! So how can atman, which is eternal and existed before the elements and will exists after them, have size? Its logical failure!

Edited: atman is said to be the size of atom etc for the purpose of meditation on atman dwelling in the heart.

Where, in which scripture, does it say that before the creation of elements, size did not exist. Please clarify.

Atman has a size. It is confirmed in the scriptures, which I quoted for your perusal. Exact size of soul is given as one-ten thousandth the size of hair-tip.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Ekanta, this is covered in the Braham Sutras and the Bhashya of Sankarcharya. If we look at the context, the Upanishads are not at all referring to the Atman here, but to the sukhshmasharia, the subtle body, the person dwelling inside the body, which is said to be the size of a thumb. The Upanishads do not attribute any size to the Atman, for they say that the Atman is smallest than the smallest, largest than the largest.

I have given you the clear verse and an additional verse supporting the same, from another scripture. If you want to deny the scriptures. It is your wish!

For the record:
Paramatma in the heart is the size of a thumb. We should medidate on that Paramatma.

For the infinite Supreme Lord it is said, that He is smaller than the smallest and larger than the largest. Not for infinitesimal soul.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Lord shiva and Krishna are one, sorry but the Vedas trump the Bhagavad Gita
" Truth is one, sages call it by different names. "
-Rig Veda

and i was speaking about Advaita people thinking Dvaita followers are dillusional, not the other way around, in my expirience most Advaitins think Dvaitas followers the same way they think of muslims or christians..

But i find this amuseing because you judged someone because you think they judged you..

my point was that the divisions in philosophy are just like divisions in religion...
Dvaita people think Advaita people are arrogent... and
Advaita people think Dvaita people are fools...
but as long as there are these seperations are in our minds there can be no unity, there can be no true samhadi... its so divided in "american" hinduism that the temples look completely differant.. the Yogi Advaitins all go to tribal looking shiva temples, and the Hare Krishna Dvaitas go to sparkally clean temples with gold ornaments....

Thank you for clarifying. It seemed directed at me.

Scriptures tell us the following:

1. Sada-Siva is non-different from Visnu-tattva : Sada-Siva, who resides in eternal abode below the vaikuntha Lokas is Visnu Murti and not Jiva Tattva.

2.

kṣīraḿ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt
sañjāyate na hi tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ
yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād
govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi​

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Śambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction. [B.S. 5.45]

The supremacy of Śambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration.

3. Gradation in qualities (Kala-Tattva): Krsna has all the 64 qualities as infinite, Lord Visnu has all 60 qualities as Infinite, Lord Sada-Siva has 55 in Bindu-roop (like a droplet), Brahma also has 50 same as Lord Siva, but the additional 5 qualities present in Lord Siva is present in him as Bindu-Ansa-Roop (portion of a drop).

correct me if im wrong but isnt Atman pure awareness of being, therefore it would have no shape or size whatsoever. I remember that line in the Upanishads and always interpreted it to mean i should visualize it as a little deity in my heart...

This deity that should be visualized in the heart is that of Supreme Lord as Paramatma. He is said to be of the size of a thumb in the heart.

The Upanishads refer repeatedly to the indwelling Paramatma. Sri Svetasvatara Upanishad describes Him as follows:

mahan prabhur vai purushah
sattvasyaisha pravartakah
su-nirmalam imam praptim
isano jyotir avyayah
angushtha-matrah purusho 'ntar-atma
sada jananam hridaye sannivishtah
hrida manisha manasabhiklpto
ya etad vidur amritas te bhavanti​

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes the Purusha to initiate the expansion of this cosmos. He is the perfectly pure goal that yogis strive to reach, the effulgent and infallible ultimate controller. Measuring the size of a thumb, the Purusha is always present as the Supersoul within the hearts of all living beings. By exercising proper intelligence, one can realize Him within the heart; those who learn this method will gain immortality. " [Svetasvatara Upanishad 3.12-13]

 

[Ekanta]

Where, in which scripture, does it say that before the creation of elements, size did not exist. Please clarify.

Atman has a size. It is confirmed in the scriptures, which I quoted for your perusal. Exact size of soul is given as one-ten thousandth the size of hair-tip.

Ok for you atman has size, fine. Be happy

 

[Shantanu]

correct me if im wrong but isnt Atman pure awareness of being, therefore it would have no shape or size whatsoever. I remember that line in the Upanishads and always interpreted it to mean i should visualize it as a little deity in my heart...

Atma(n) is best visualised as a spirit of connection between the jiva and the Reality as satyam-jnanum-anantum (as existence/knowledge/bliss), that is of saguna Brahman. It is located not in the physical heart of the body but in one's mind. The mind then has to 'realise' the Reality through the atman. This means that atman is initially present only in a clouded ignorant form aggravated by the ego and the needs and desires of the body that need to be transcended. If an attempt is made to transcend these bodily features, the process of realisation begins. The best course of charting ones progress to the underlying reality is through satya-advaita, that is rational truth-search and practice of oneness with truth. Why? Because truth is an expression of Reality. If one adopts an atheistic outlook and perspective through this process one may to reach the point that the atman has understood, but not fully realised, the existence of saguna Brahman (all that exists as the mechanism of vyvaharika), as the infinite or limitless sat-chit-ananda. Nirguna Brahman is the unmanifest Brahman that is associated with its potential for manifestation as maya plus a universal principle called prarabhda that makes things happen. A theistic outlook will give one the perspective that nirguna Brahman is in fact the impersonal aspect of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krishna who acts to manifest saguna Brahman through Maya and prarabhda. The atma (and hence the mind) will start to experience Paramatma as the supersoul/Spirit of Sri Krishna and thus fully realise sat-chit-ananda.

Thus, when atma only tries to realise the impersonal Brahman that is advaita. It is never satisfying course so that the search keeps going on and is endless because science cannot fathom Reality in its fundamentals. The dvaita outlook sees the ultimate reality and is not afraid of surrendering to such a Reality. When atma merges with Paramatma it has become a deity in its own right and a perfect human being who is self satisfied. Thus atma is therefore a real thing in one's mind for both advaitists and those who follow the doctrine and philosophy of achintya bhedabheda tattva for whom the Supreme Lord can enter ones body through it to influence ones life as the Paramatma; the higher one's realisation of this Reality the greater is the Lord's influence over one's atma and the higher one's individual status as a diety/deva. If one closes one's mind to the possible existence of Sri Krishna the realisation (of sat-chit-ananda) as the destination of the atma will be incomplete. It is in this light that the scriptures of Hinduism must be analysed.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

I do not know what this doctrine or philsophy is. I only know what I have experienced. There is a way to tell when one's thoughts are one's own or are the Supreme's thoughts planted into the mind; when visions are given by the Supreme as distinct from one's own imaginations and dreams; and one can test whether He will reappear to reinforce the realisation and make the jiva know that He is observing what the jiva is doing and what is happening. Realisation of the Supreme within oneself may take place in several phases. It is very protective and one can call it divine protection.

I agree. To the sincere, the Lord, who is situated as Parmatma in all our hearts, guides from within.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Ekanta, this is covered in the Braham Sutras and the Bhashya of Sankarcharya. If we look at the context, the Upanishads are not at all referring to the Atman here, but to the sukhshmasharia, the subtle body, the person dwelling inside the body, which is said to be the size of a thumb. The Upanishads do not attribute any size to the Atman, for they say that the Atman is smallest than the smallest, largest than the largest.

:thud:

The Upanishads refer repeatedly to the indwelling Paramatma. Sri Svetasvatara Upanishad (3.12-13) describes Him as follows:

mahan prabhur vai purushah
sattvasyaisha pravartakah
su-nirmalam imam praptim
isano jyotir avyayah
angushtha-matrah purusho 'ntar-atma
sada jananam hridaye sannivishtah
hrida manisha manasabhiklpto
ya etad vidur amritas te bhavanti​

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes the Purusha to initiate the expansion of this cosmos. He is the perfectly pure goal that yogis strive to reach, the effulgent and infallible ultimate controller. Measuring the size of a thumb, the Purusha is always present as the Supersoul within the hearts of all living beings. By exercising proper intelligence, one can realize Him within the heart; those who learn this method will gain immortality. " [Svetasvatara Upanishad 3.12-13]

 

[Shantanu]

I agree. To the sincere, the Lord, who is situated as Parmatma in all our hearts, guides from within.

And also from without by affecting developments to chart one's course in life.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Yes, I agree. He also guides from without by affecting developments which will, for the sincere soul, culminate in surrender to a sad-guru - a bonafide spiritual master.

It is said: By Krishna's mercy one gets a Spiritual Master and by the mercy of a Spiritual Master one gets Krishna.

Spiritual master is the mercy of Krsna personified. Krsna is like the Sun and Spiritual Master is the sunlight. Just like sun can be seen only by it's own mercy - sunlight; similarly Krsna can be known only through His mercy incarnate, His representative - bonafide spiritual master.

 

[Shantanu]

Yes, I agree. He also guides from without by affecting developments which will, for the sincere soul, culminate in surrender to a sad-guru - a bonafide spiritual master.

It is said: By Krishna's mercy one gets a Spiritual Master and by the mercy of a Spiritual Master one gets Krishna.

Spiritual master is the mercy of Krsna personified. Krsna is like the Sun and Spiritual Master is the sunlight. Just like sun can be seen only by it's own mercy - sunlight; similarly Krsna can be known only through His mercy incarnate, His representative - bonafide spiritual master.

Seeking the truth is all one can do in this life and this is best done every moment of the day through all means at ones disposal. Spiritual Masters are for the masses not for the self-intiated. I am my own guru.

Hold on! That is like saying that I am a sad guru, is it not?

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Seeking the truth is all one can do in this life and this is best done every moment of the day through all means at ones disposal. Spiritual Masters are for the masses not for the self-intiated. I am my own guru.

Hold on! That is like saying that I am a sad guru, is it not?

I understand that you have had a bad experience with a person you considered Guru.

However, my emphasis is on a bonafide spiritual master. This means that whatever path you choose - bhakti, jnana, karma etc., to realize Supreme Lord; your Guru would have treaded that path under the care of his Guru and would have realized Supreme Lord; in the same way, the spiritual master of your Guru would have done so under his Guru's expert guidance and so on. Thus you know you are in safe hands.

A bonafide Spiritual Master is not a mundane person of this world. He is the absolute counterpart of Supreme Lord - Kṛṣṇa.

So, even if you don't want to take shelter of a Guru right now, just identify the path you want to go. Then, start associating with persons from that school of thought.

Later, when you think you are ready, then you can think about accepting a Guru.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Just for the record:

Importance of a sad-guru is stressed in the book called Tattva-sāgara:

durlabhe sad-gurūṇāḿ ca sakṛt-sańga upasthite
tad-anujñā yadā labdhā sa dīkṣāvasaro mahān
grāme vā yadi vāraṇye kṣetre vā divase niśi
āgacchati gurur daivād yathā dīkṣā tad-ājñayā
yadaivecchā tadā dīkṣā guror ājñānurūpataḥ
na tīrthaḿ na vrataḿ hemo na snānaḿ na japa-kriyā
dīkṣāyāḥ karaṇaḿ kintu svecchā-prāpte tu sad-gurau​

"If by chance one gets a sad-guru, it doesn't matter whether one is in the temple or the forest. If the sad-guru, the bona fide spiritual master, agrees, one can be initiated immediately, without waiting for a suitable time or place."

guru-śuśrūṣayā bhaktyā
sarva-labdhārpaṇena ca
sańgena sādhu-bhaktānām
īśvarārādhanena ca
śraddhayā tat-kathāyāḿ ca
kīrtanair guṇa-karmaṇām
tat-pādāmburuha-dhyānāt
tal-lińgekṣārhaṇādibhiḥ​

One must accept the bona fide spiritual master and render service unto him with great devotion and faith. Whatever one has in one's possession should be offered to the spiritual master, and in the association of saintly persons and devotees one should worship the Lord, hear the glories of the Lord with faith, glorify the transcendental qualities and activities of the Lord, always meditate on the Lord's lotus feet, and worship the Deity of the Lord strictly according to the injunctions of the śāstra and guru. [S.B. 7.7.30-31]

 

[Shantanu]

I understand that you have had a bad experience with a person you considered Guru.

However, my emphasis is on a bonafide spiritual master. This means that whatever path you choose - bhakti, jnana, karma etc., to realize Supreme Lord; your Guru would have treaded that path under the care of his Guru and would have realized Supreme Lord; in the same way, the spiritual master of your Guru would have done so under his Guru's expert guidance and so on. Thus you know you are in safe hands.

A bonafide Spiritual Master is not a mundane person of this world. He is the absolute counterpart of Supreme Lord - Kṛṣṇa.

So, even if you don't want to take shelter of a Guru right now, just identify the path you want to go. Then, start associating with persons from that school of thought.

Later, when you think you are ready, then you can think about accepting a Guru.

You appear not to have taken note of my last posts. So let me be absolutely clear. I do not want to be brainwashed by a purported Spiritual Master, because I know from first hand knowledge that no-one can be a counterpart of the Supreme Lord Krishna for the purposes of knowledge acquisition. This has been proven to me beyond doubt.

Secondly, I do not want rubbish to come my way and then give all that I have to a Spiritual Master in terms of devotional offerings for that rubbish. I am a self-enlightened person to know that as well.

Kindly therefore respond to my earlier post to shivadas (post 166) about the meaning of atma(n) by rejecting what it says or by providing a better explanation instead of telling me which human's feet I should touch in order to acquire knowledge of Reality or which of the 'scriptures' should form the basis of my understanding of that Reality.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Atma(n) is best visualised as a spirit of connection between the jiva and the Reality as satyam-jnanum-anantum (as existence/knowledge/bliss), that is of saguna Brahman. It is located not in the physical heart of the body but in one's mind. The mind then has to 'realise' the Reality through the atman. This means that atman is initially present only in a clouded ignorant form aggravated by the ego and the needs and desires of the body that need to be transcended. If an attempt is made to transcend these bodily features, the process of realisation begins. The best course of charting ones progress to the underlying reality is through satya-advaita, that is rational truth-search and practice of oneness with truth. Why? Because truth is an expression of Reality. If one adopts an atheistic outlook and perspective through this process one may to reach the point that the atman has understood, but not fully realised, the existence of saguna Brahman (all that exists as the mechanism of vyvaharika), as the infinite or limitless sat-chit-ananda. Nirguna Brahman is the unmanifest Brahman that is associated with its potential for manifestation as maya plus a universal principle called prarabhda that makes things happen. A theistic outlook will give one the perspective that nirguna Brahman is in fact the impersonal aspect of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krishna who acts to manifest saguna Brahman through Maya and prarabhda. The atma (and hence the mind) will start to experience Paramatma as the supersoul/Spirit of Sri Krishna and thus fully realise sat-chit-ananda.

Thus, when atma only tries to realise the impersonal Brahman that is advaita. It is never satisfying course so that the search keeps going on and is endless because science cannot fathom Reality in its fundamentals. The dvaita outlook sees the ultimate reality and is not afraid of surrendering to such a Reality. When atma merges with Paramatma it has become a deity in its own right and a perfect human being who is self satisfied. Thus atma is therefore a real thing in one's mind for both advaitists and those who follow the doctrine and philosophy of achintya bhedabheda tattva for whom the Supreme Lord can enter ones body through it to influence ones life as the Paramatma; the higher one's realisation of this Reality the greater is the Lord's influence over one's atma and the higher one's individual status as a diety/deva. If one closes one's mind to the possible existence of Sri Krishna the realisation (of sat-chit-ananda) as the destination of the atma will be incomplete. It is in this light that the scriptures of Hinduism must be analysed.

Atma means soul. Soul is by nature sat-chīt-ānanda. It is not in the mind, but it is situated in the heart. It spreads throughout the body through consciousness.

eṣo 'ṇur ātmā cetasā veditavyo
yasmin prāṇaḥ pañcadhā saḿviveśa
prāṇaiś cittaḿ sarvam otaḿ prajānāḿ
yasmin viśuddhe vibhavaty eṣa ātmā​

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prāṇa, apāna, vyāna, samāna and udāna), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited." [ Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 3.1.9]

The senses, mind, intelligence and ego are the inferior energy of Supreme Lord. Soul is transcendental to these. Just like with lower emanations, the superior source cannot be ascertained, similarly, through mind (inferior material energy), the higher source cannot (spiritual Supreme Lord) cannot be known.

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaḿ mano buddhir eva ca
ahańkāra itīyaḿ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā​

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego — all together these eight constitute My separated material energies. [B.G. 7.4]

Then how can one know Supreme Lord? He can only be known when He makes Himself known. So, one must surrender to Him. He can be known through Devotion. That is the process.

ahaḿ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaḿ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māḿ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ​

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. [B.G. 10.8]

teṣāḿ satata-yuktānāḿ
bhajatāḿ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaḿ taḿ
yena mām upayānti te​

To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me. [B.G. 10.10]

 

[Shantanu]

Then how can one know Supreme Lord? He can only be known when He makes Himself known. So, one must surrender to Him. He can be known through Devotion. That is the process.

ahaḿ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaḿ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māḿ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ​

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. [B.G. 10.8]

teṣāḿ satata-yuktānāḿ
bhajatāḿ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaḿ taḿ
yena mām upayānti te​

To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me. [B.G. 10.10]

Yes Vrindavana Dasji, only when He decides to make himself known to a person will that person get to know Him. This is how the achintya-bhedabheda tattva needs to be understood and clarified. The oneness and the differnce are not perfectly simultaneous until atma and Parmatma are in surrendered-union at all times of the day and night. Even so one can never entirely assume that what one is doing and writing is coming from Him through the jiva but when oneness in devotion is so strong it is 99 (not 100) per cent certain that He is the ultimate doer and writer of ones actions through perfect impartation of gyana/jnana into the mind. Such a person is an avatar. For 100 per cent certainty, one needs to develop a method of consultation with the Supreme. This consultation may be denied because He is 'gyaneshwar', that is knows what is best for humanity. So in achintya bhedabheda tattva we are jiva's primarily.

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Yes Vrindavan Dasji, only when He decides to make himself known to a person will that person get to know him. This is how the achintya-bhedabheda tattva needs to be understood and clarified. The oneness and the differnce are not perfectly simultaneous until atma and Parmatma are in surrendered-union at all times of the day and night. Even so one can never entirely assume that what one is doing and writing is coming from Him through the jiva but when oneness in devotion is so strong it is 99 (not 100) per cent certain that He is the ultimate doer and writer of ones actions through perfect impartation of gyana/jnana into the mind. Such a person is an avatar. For 100 per cent certainty, one needs to develop a method of consultation with the Supreme. This consultation may be denied because He is 'gyaneshwar', that is knows what is best for humanity. So in achintya bhedabheda tattva we are jiva's primarily.

That is correct. This is the process of 'realizing' Achintya-bhedābheda tattva. Transcendental meditation.

In other words, transcending the modes of material nature to achieve spiritual existence - same in quality (sat-chīt-ānanda) and yet different in quantity (one is infinitesimal and other is infinite) with Supreme Lord - Kṛṣṇa.

The process of achieving this is to utilize the body in the service of Lord. Then the material body becomes spiritualized.

Transcendental Supreme Lord is like fire. Material body is like an iron rod. Iron rod, constantly in touch with fire, at the end becomes fire. It acts like fire. although the rod is not fire, it becomes red-hot and acts like fire itself. Similarly, all the actions and reactions of material nature are not actually the work of material nature but are actions and reactions of the energy of the Supreme Lord manifested through matter. The power of electricity is transmitted through the medium of copper, but this does not mean that the copper is electricity. The power is generated at a powerhouse under the control of an expert living being. Similarly, behind all the jugglery of the natural laws is a great living being, who is a person like the mechanical engineer in the powerhouse. It is by His intelligence that the entire cosmic creation moves in a systematic way.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate​

One who engages in full devotional service, unfailing in all circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman. [B.G. 14.26]

 

[Shantanu]

That is correct. This is the process of 'realizing' Achintya-bhedābheda tattva. Transcendental meditation.

In other words, transcending the modes of material nature to achieve spiritual existence - same in quality (sat-chīt-ānanda) and yet different in quantity (one is infinitesimal and other is infinite) with Supreme Lord - Kṛṣṇa.

The process of achieving this is to utilize the body in the service of Lord. Then the material body becomes spiritualized.

Transcendental Supreme Lord is like fire. Material body is like an iron rod. Iron rod, constantly in touch with fire, at the end becomes fire. It acts like fire. although the rod is not fire, it becomes red-hot and acts like fire itself. Similarly, all the actions and reactions of material nature are not actually the work of material nature but are actions and reactions of the energy of the Supreme Lord manifested through matter. The power of electricity is transmitted through the medium of copper, but this does not mean that the copper is electricity. The power is generated at a powerhouse under the control of an expert living being. Similarly, behind all the jugglery of the natural laws is a great living being, who is a person like the mechanical engineer in the powerhouse. It is by His intelligence that the entire cosmic creation moves in a systematic way.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate​

One who engages in full devotional service, unfailing in all circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman. [B.G. 14.26]

I am not engaged in any devotional service to the Supreme or anyone else for that matter, only to myself: I guess I am therefore not subscribing to or being in compliance with the achintya bhedaabheda tattva doctrine and philosophy, am I?

 

[Vrindavana Das]

That means, like most of us, you may know the doctrine theoretically. Practically will have to follow later.

Edit: One is like knowing that sugar tastes sweet. Other is tasting the sugar to realize it's sweetness.

 

[Shantanu]

That means, like most of us, you may know the doctrine theoretically. Practically will have to follow later.

Edit: One is like knowing that sugar tastes sweet. Other is tasting the sugar to realize it's sweetness.

Honestly, Vrindavana Dasji, after 15 years of search in transcendental meditation I have reached the end of the line: 'ved-anta'; so I must call my knowledge something else, not achintya bhedabheda tattva.