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Brennan: "nothing short of treasonous"

Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
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Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Stevicus said:
Why should we have to choose between Russia and our supposed "long-term allies"? Why should we play favorites at all? How does it benefit America?
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Europe is governed by shady banksters and globalists who hate Russia... why? because Russia declared war on Soros, a person who wants both USA and Europe to be wiped away by mass immigration, unemployment and recession.

Now: Europe is split in two: souverainists (Italy, Austria supporting Putin) and globalists (Germany, France against Putin).
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Europe is governed by shady banksters and globalists who hate Russia... why? because Russia declared war on Soros, a person who wants both USA and Europe to be wiped away by mass immigration, unemployment and recession.

Now: Europe is split in two: souverainists (Italy, Austria supporting Putin) and globalists (Germany, France against Putin).
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I've heard various things said about Soros, as well as stuff about the Koch Brothers and other movers-and-shakers out there with some sort of political agenda. It's hard to say whether anyone wants to intentionally wipe away the USA and Europe. They might have good intentions and think that they're doing good, yet others might see them as misguided or just plain wrong. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything about their intentions, which aren't always clear to the general public anyway.

As I said in a previous post, I have no real illusions about Russia - they have their shady, criminal types just as in every government and political system that has ever existed. They spy on us, we spy on them - and everyone spies on everyone else. That doesn't mean that the country or people are bad - no better or worse than any other country. But we still may have to watch them, just as we should still watch ourselves and our own politicians. The world is full of crooks, but just as every voter has to choose between the lesser of two evils, the same choices exist in our foreign policy.

But there is common ground that we can still work towards. I think we should just learn from this experience, shore up our own computer security, and just try to move past this. They're never going to admit to it, so it's a dead duck at this point. All we can do now is move forward and be on better guard in the future.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Stanyon said:
Putin is offering to question suspects in Muellers indictments if an official request for it is made and will include members of Muellers team to be part of it if they so wish.

If Mueller investigation sends official request to question suspects, Russia will do that - Putin — RT World News
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It would be insane to allow him to do that.

But of course Putin is offering that. It would provide him with inside information as to how US intelligence agencies went about discovering how he hacked into and trying to influence American elections. So next time, maybe he can do it undetected. The US would be crazy to allow him access to suspects in Muller's indictments. I can't even believe it's up for discussion.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
metis said:
When you post something as off the wall and historically inept as the above, this discussion comes to an abrupt end.
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I see. So your answer is "nothing." I would have expected something more of substance.

I'm aware of history well enough to know what you could say in answer to my question. I'm aware of what you would probably say, which is something you would consider so incredibly obvious that you're astounded at me posting something so "off the wall and historically inept."

It was a rhetorical question. I already knew the answer before I asked it. I surmised that the answer you would have given was probably the wrong answer, but I wanted to hear it anyway. Just in case you might have told me something I haven't already heard a million times before.

But if this is how you wish to end the discussion, then I guess that's that. Oh well.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Stevicus said:
You were asking about the reactions of Republicans and European leaders. Most of this seems like nothing more than a show to me; it's all just acting, as politicians and lawyers are wont to do. When I've asked for specifics in logical, rational terms, all I get is more emotionalism.

I'm not saying it's nothing, but computer hacking is so ubiquitous, it's hard to know how one is "supposed" to react to it. I remember a while back when Target got hacked and millions of customers' credit card data was breached. This kind of thing seems to happen so much that we've gotten to the point where we just accept these things as the cost of doing business by computer.

We've had numerous cases of spies and hacking from China, and our reactions to that have been more measured, not ballistic.
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Oh, so you didn't offer to let China investigate themselves?
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Stevicus said:
I'm not talking about Gingrich or any of the rhetoric common in U.S. politics. I'm talking about the US geopolitical position and what we regard as our interests and threats to those interests. The world is nowhere near the same as it was just after WW2 when the Cold War started. Russia is no longer the same either, and neither is America for that matter. This isn't the 1950s, and Putin is not Stalin. Considering our present position and our national security aspirations right now, we'd be far better off with Russia on our side than not.

As far as Russian meddling or meddling by any other foreign entity - what can we do? We have an internet which is open to all around the world. We even have people who are not US citizens commenting in forums like this on American politics, which could conceivably influence US voters and could be deemed "meddling" in our election process.

We haven't been innocent either, in terms of meddling in elections and other internal affairs of sovereign nations. So, when Trump mentioned that both sides share fault, that was a true statement. I think people expected him to stomp his foot and tell Putin that he was bad man or something, but perhaps it's time to get past this petty squabbling and work towards something more meaningful - like peaceful coexistence in this world.
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Mmm hmm. We all know what the reaction would have been if Obama had said anything close to what Trump has said to Putin.

All the rules have suddenly changed now that Trump is President and it's nauseating.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
SkepticThinker said:
Mmm hmm. We all know what the reaction would have been if Obama had said anything close to what Trump has said to Putin.

All the rules have suddenly changed now that Trump is President and it's nauseating.
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I don't know what rules you're talking about or which rules have changed. Most people seem to follow the rules of partisanship, which means that they support their party or faction no matter what, while endlessly criticizing the opposing party or faction no matter what. Those rules were in place long ago, and they've continued as such to the present day.

Now, if you're trying to say that people's principles have changed as a result of following the rules of partisanship, that's another matter. It's true - some people would react differently if Obama said or did something similar. The same argument gets tossed back and forth from both sides, while the other claims "false equivalence." It sounds like a broken record at this point (and it's also why Hillary will never ever really go away from the discussion).

Fewer people actually want to discuss actual principles anymore; it's all a bunch overly partisan rhetoric which jumps back and forth so much it's hard to tell who's who without a score card. In that kind of atmosphere, maybe a few rule changes might be in order.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Stevicus said:
Why should we have to choose between Russia and our supposed "long-term allies"? Why should we play favorites at all? How does it benefit America?
Click to expand...
I have trivia question for you. Ready?

Article 5 of the NATO treaty states that an attack on one member nation will be treated like an attack on all member nations,

So how many member nations of NATO have invoked this common defence clause? And can you name them?

(Google if you have to)
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
fantome profane said:
I have trivia question for you. Ready?

Article 5 of the NATO treaty states that an attack on one member nation will be treated like an attack on all member nations,

So how many member nations of NATO have invoked this common defence clause? And can you name them?

(Google if you have to)
Click to expand...

Maybe instead of playing games and talking around stuff, why don't you just make your point so I can respond?

Whatever happened to straight talk anyway? Everyone tries to be cryptic, clever, and/or indignant, but without actually saying anything of substance. Probably because it's too difficult to defend specious viewpoints.
 
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