Brennan: "nothing short of treasonous"

[Twilight Hue]

Mmm hmm. We all know what the reaction would have been if Obama had said anything close to what Trump has said to Putin.

All the rules have suddenly changed now that Trump is President and it's nauseating.

It's tough to take your own medicine.

 

[esmith]

Guess there wasn't a problem with this

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's tough to take your own medicine.

Not sure what you're talking about.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't know what rules you're talking about or which rules have changed. Most people seem to follow the rules of partisanship, which means that they support their party or faction no matter what, while endlessly criticizing the opposing party or faction no matter what. Those rules were in place long ago, and they've continued as such to the present day.

Now, if you're trying to say that people's principles have changed as a result of following the rules of partisanship, that's another matter. It's true - some people would react differently if Obama said or did something similar. The same argument gets tossed back and forth from both sides, while the other claims "false equivalence." It sounds like a broken record at this point (and it's also why Hillary will never ever really go away from the discussion).

Fewer people actually want to discuss actual principles anymore; it's all a bunch overly partisan rhetoric which jumps back and forth so much it's hard to tell who's who without a score card. In that kind of atmosphere, maybe a few rule changes might be in order.

I'm talking about the rules that were never acceptable for ANYONE that are now vehemently defended by hardcore Trump supporters and Congressional Republicans.
Stuff like publicly kissing the *** of dictators while simultaneously dumping all over one's own intelligence agencies. Stuff like "flip flopping" (which Trump does at least once a day). Stuff like demonizing the press and referring to them as the "enemies of the state" when they report things that don't 100% support and cheer for every single thing the president does. Stuff like publicly asking for and encouraging a foreign government to hack into one's opponent's emails. Stuff like equating white supremacists with those who protest white supremacy and fascism. Stuff like not releasing one's tax returns. Stuff like, not divesting oneself from one's business interests which may conflict with his role as President. The rules of what is acceptable have drastically changed since Trump became President. The bar has been significantly lowered.

I mean, people used to get bent out of shape when Obama wore a tan suit or went golfing. John Kerry was vilified when running for president because he "flip flopped" once and was married to a woman who was born somewhere else. Now there's a president who constantly contradicts himself (sometimes even within a single sentence) on an almost daily basis, and who golfs every single weekend while I have people on this board trying to tell me with a straight face that they actually believe Obama golfed MORE than Trump. It's unreal.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm talking about the rules that were never acceptable for ANYONE that are now vehemently defended by hardcore Trump supporters and Congressional Republicans.

Well, let's see what kind of "rules" we're talking about...

Stuff like publicly kissing the *** of dictators while simultaneously dumping all over one's own intelligence agencies.

Well, supporting dictatorial regimes has been part and parcel of US foreign policy for well over a century. There are pictures of George Bush actually kissing the Saudi monarch, who leads one of the most medieval regimes in the world today - far worse than NK or Russia.

As far as dumping all over intelligence agencies, that's what a vigilant populace and a government with checks and balances are supposed to do. Back in the 60s and 70s, liberals commonly believed that it was a good thing to "question authority," but nowadays, they're not only criticizing those who question authority, they're calling it "treasonous." Talk about "flip flopping." As far as this particular "rule" goes, it never really changed - or if it did, it shouldn't have.

Stuff like "flip flopping" (which Trump does at least once a day).

That's common in politics. I didn't know there was an actual "rule" on this. Remember you said "all the rules have suddenly changed," but since when was this ever a "rule"?

Stuff like demonizing the press and referring to them as the "enemies of the state" when they report things that don't 100% support and cheer for every single thing the president does.

Every politician has complained about the media at one point or another. There's never been any "rule" against it.

Stuff like publicly asking for and encouraging a foreign government to hack into one's opponent's emails.

I think that was mainly tongue-in-cheek. A bit of political satire, and there's no rule against that either.

Stuff like equating white supremacists with those who protest white supremacy and fascism.

Yes, I suppose so, although in the context of your claim about "rule changes," this is a bit complicated since the "rules" in this area are related to the entire country trying to come to terms with its own history. The "rules" in this area have changed multiple times throughout our history, and different presidents have followed different sets of rules. When you talk about rules which were "never acceptable" for anyone, I don't think that's entirely true when you look at the overall historical context.

Stuff like not releasing one's tax returns.

Again, there's no "rule" about this. It's simply customary.

Stuff like, not divesting oneself from one's business interests which may conflict with his role as President. The rules of what is acceptable have drastically changed since Trump became President. The bar has been significantly lowered.

I think all of this is grossly exaggerated. It's not that people are "vehemently" defending Trump as much as much as they're attacking equally vehement defenses of previous administrations and policies which have been ruinous for America.

I mean, people used to get bent out of shape when Obama wore a tan suit or went golfing.

I don't remember that. I'll admit a lot of what was said about Obama was incredibly off the wall (such as supposedly being a "socialist"), but every president goes golfing once in a while.

John Kerry was vilified when running for president because he "flip flopped" once and was married to a woman who was born somewhere else.

Sometimes it's like that. I recall when Gary Hart was forced out of the race over allegations of marital infidelity. The press was absolutely merciless in their skewering of the guy, but four years later when Clinton was accused of the same thing, the press gave him a pass. I'll admit there are times when I don't understand it either. Reagan was called the "Teflon President," and to some extent, this also applied to Clinton. The press certainly did not hold Reagan or Clinton to the same standard they held Richard Nixon to, nor is it the same standard they're holding Trump to.

Now there's a president who constantly contradicts himself (sometimes even within a single sentence) on an almost daily basis, and who golfs every single weekend while I have people on this board trying to tell me with a straight face that they actually believe Obama golfed MORE than Trump. It's unreal.

I haven't made any criticisms based on how much any of them play golf.