Bringing Christianity into disrepute!

[sojourner]

We don't know that for sure, obviously there were gays in Biblical times.

Yes, there were. But the orientation hadn’t been identified. Otherwise, there would have been language for it. Language is a very, very good indicator of human concepts.

 

[JJ50]

Yes, there were. But the orientation hadn’t been identified. Otherwise, there would have been language for it. Language is a very, very good indicator of human concepts.

If you say so.

 

[viole]

Yes, there were. But the orientation hadn’t been identified. Otherwise, there would have been language for it. Language is a very, very good indicator of human concepts.

Therefore, that was not inspired by God. Assuming God understands there is a thing called sexual orientation.

Ciao

- viole

 

[3rdAngel]

Some extreme Christians, of the fundamentalist/Biblical literalist genre, bring the faith into disrepute with their unpleasant behaviour. Their attitude to the faith is most off putting, and is likely to have unbelievers running for the hills rather than wishing to take on board Christianity. I have been particularly disgusted by the nasty bigots who are anti-gay, they are evil, imo. There are many gay Christians in this world, as I have said before even Jesus could have been gay, as he supposedly had a disciple whom he loved. I would love to see the look on their faces if that could be proved to be correct.

There is no such thing as a gay or homosexual Christian. This would fall more towards Sodom and Gomorrah which was a lesson to all those who practice this lifestyle. God loves the sinner but hates the sin and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son. It is love not hate that tells the truth. Although it is true that some may do this in a way that is also not Christian.

 

[sojourner]

Therefore, that was not inspired by God. Assuming God understands there is a thing called sexual orientation.

Ciao

- viole

What God understands and what humanity understands are different matters. I believe God made us the way we are and proclaimed it good.

 

[sojourner]

There is no such thing as a gay or homosexual Christian. This would fall more towards Sodom and Gomorrah which was a lesson to all those who practice this lifestyle. God loves the sinner but hates the sin and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son. It is love not hate that tells the truth. Although it is true that some may do this in a way that is also not Christian.

I beg to differ. The sin of Sodom wasn’t homosexuality, it was a lack of hospitality.

I know many gay Christians. Just because you don’t recognize them doesn’t mean they aren’t who they claim to be. I could, by your logic, say that there is no such thing as a judgmental Christian, and that would set you out right on your ear.

 

[sooda]

Well perhaps they realise that historically sex was a high heath risk less so in the modern age but still risky. Or unlike you realise loving someone does not mean banging them

So in you opinion the Christians Church should change it's sex in marriage and only for reproduction stance for what good reason

You believe sex is only for marriage and reproduction?

 

[3rdAngel]

I beg to differ. The sin of Sodom wasn’t homosexuality, it was a lack of hospitality.

I know many gay Christians. Just because you don’t recognize them doesn’t mean they aren’t who they claim to be. I could, by your logic, say that there is no such thing as a judgmental Christian, and that would set you out right on your ear.

Your confused and do not know what the bible says do you. As posted earlier. There is no such thing as a gay Christian. What does the bible say? The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah included homosexuality which is an abomination in God's eyes...

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Genesis 19:4–5 described what followed, which confirmed its end:

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old, all the people from every quarter.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him: 'Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.'

(NRSV: know them, NIV: can have sex with them, NJB: can have intercourse with them).

Lot refused to give his guests to the inhabitants of Sodom for homosexuality and, instead, offered them his two virgin daughters "which have not known man" and to "do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes". However, they refused this offer, complained about this alien, namely Lot, giving orders, and then came near to break down the door.

..............

In Luke 17:28–30, Jesus compares his second-coming to the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (RSV):

Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.

In Romans 9:29, Paul the Apostle quotes Isaiah 1:9 (RSV): "And as Isaiah predicted, 'If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah.'"

In 2 Peter 2:4–10, Saint Peter says that just as God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and saved Lot, he will deliver godly people from temptations and punish the wicked on Judgement Day.

Jude 1:7 records that both Sodom and Gomorrah were "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire".

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. —Jude 1:7

..............

Jewish View

Rabbi Basil Herring, who served as head of the Rabbinical Council of America from 2003 to 2012, writes that both the Rabbinic tradition and modern orthodox position consider the Torah to condemn homosexuality as an abomination. Moreover, that it "conveys its abhorrence of homosexuality through a variety of narrative settings", God's judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah being a "paradigmatic" instance of such condemnation.

Too many more scriptures no use in posting any more.

Sorry friend God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

 

[Darkforbid]

You believe sex is only for marriage and reproduction?

No I know sex is only for attempting reproduction and marriage is a contract of commitment

I also think marriage should be a one time only thing.

 

[sojourner]

There is no such thing as a gay Christian

What a very unChristian thing for you to say.

, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah included homosexuality

No it didn’t. Homosexuality was unknown in the ancient world.

nor men who practice homosexuality,

That’s not a good translation of the Greek. The Greek is closer to “one who forces himself on other men.”

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

That says nothing about homosexuality.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them

See above.

Genesis 19:4–5 described what followed, which confirmed its end

Had nothing to do with homosexuality.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about here.

It’s sad and evil, IMO.

 

[sojourner]

No I know sex is only for attempting reproduction and marriage is a contract of commitment

I also think marriage should be a one time only thing.

The Bible the Church and many religions disagree with you. So do social scientists.

 

[Darkforbid]

Your confused. As posted earlier. There is no such thing as a gay Christian, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah included homosexuality which is an abomination in God's eyes...

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Genesis 19:4–5 described what followed, which confirmed its end:

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old, all the people from every quarter.
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him: 'Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.'

(NRSV: know them, NIV: can have sex with them, NJB: can have intercourse with them).

Lot refused to give his guests to the inhabitants of Sodom for homosexuality and, instead, offered them his two virgin daughters "which have not known man" and to "do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes". However, they refused this offer, complained about this alien, namely Lot, giving orders, and then came near to break down the door.

..............

Moses referred to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Deuteronomy 29:22–23:

Your children who follow you in later generations and foreigners who come from distant lands will see the calamities that have fallen on the land and the diseases with which the LORD has afflicted it. The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur—nothing planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, which the Lord overthrew in fierce anger.—NIV

See also: Deuteronomy 32:32–33

Isaiah 1:9–10, Isaiah 3:9 and Isaiah 13:19–22 addresses people as from Sodom and Gomorrah, associates Sodom with shameless sinning and tells Babylon that it will end like those two cities.

Jeremiah 23:14, Jeremiah 49:17–18, Jeremiah 50:39–40 and Lamentations 4:6 associate Sodom and Gomorrah with adultery and lies, prophesies the fate of Edom, south of the Dead Sea, predicts the fate of Babylon and uses Sodom as a comparison.

In Ezekiel 16:48–50, God compares Jerusalem to Sodom, saying "Sodom never did what you and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

In Amos 4:1–11, God tells the Israelites that although he treated them like Sodom and Gomorrah, they still did not repent.

In Zephaniah 2:9, Zephaniah tells Moab and Ammon, southeast and northeast of the Dead Sea, that they will end up like Sodom and Gomorrah.

New Testament

In Matthew 10:1–15, cf. Luke 10:1–12, Jesus declares certain cities more damnable than Sodom and Gomorrah, due to their response to Jesus' disciples, in the light of greater grace (RSV):

And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town.

In Matthew 11:20–24, Jesus prophesies the fate of some cities where he did some of his works (RSV):

And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.

In Luke 17:28–30, Jesus compares his second-coming to the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (RSV):

Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed.

In Romans 9:29, Paul the Apostle quotes Isaiah 1:9 (RSV): "And as Isaiah predicted, 'If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah.'"

In 2 Peter 2:4–10, Saint Peter says that just as God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and saved Lot, he will deliver godly people from temptations and punish the wicked on Judgement Day.

Jude 1:7 records that both Sodom and Gomorrah were "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire".

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. —Jude 1:7

Revelation 11:7–8 makes an allegorical use of Sodom when it describes the places where the two witnesses will descend during the Apocalypse.

..............

Jewish View

Rabbi Basil Herring, who served as head of the Rabbinical Council of America from 2003 to 2012, writes that both the Rabbinic tradition and modern orthodox position consider the Torah to condemn homosexuality as an abomination. Moreover, that it "conveys its abhorrence of homosexuality through a variety of narrative settings", God's judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah being a "paradigmatic" instance of such condemnation.

Too many more scriptures no use in posting any more.

Sorry friend God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

You do know this is a forum, right! I've seen entire websites with less text,, and entirely wrong BTW. The Catholic Church allows homosexual priests

 

[sooda]

No I know sex is only for attempting reproduction and marriage is a contract of commitment

I also think marriage should be a one time only thing.

I think sex is for joy and bonding..ideally for marriage and children, but people past child bearing age also marry.

 

[sooda]

What a very unChristian thing for you to say.

No it didn’t. Homosexuality was unknown in the ancient world.


That’s not a good translation of the Greek. The Greek is closer to “one who forces himself on other men.”


That says nothing about homosexuality.


See above.

Had nothing to do with homosexuality.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about here.

It’s sad and evil, IMO.

history - What was the Sin of Gomorrah? - Christianity ...
What was the Sin of Gomorrah?was-the-sin-of-gomorrah
The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah as recorded by prophet Ezekiel, ~1500 years later - Ezekiel 16:49-50 (NIV) “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as ...

 

[sooda]

You do know this is a forum, right! I've seen entire websites with less text,, and entirely wrong BTW. The Catholic Church allows homosexual priests

Paul wrote to the Corinthians.

 

[Darkforbid]

The Bible the Church and many religions disagree with you. So do social scientists.

Do they really. They may well but until you state why! We'll never know, will we

 

[3rdAngel]

Do they really. They may well but until you state why! We'll never know, will we

What a very unChristian thing for you to say.

No it didn’t. Homosexuality was unknown in the ancient world.


That’s not a good translation of the Greek. The Greek is closer to “one who forces himself on other men.”


That says nothing about homosexuality.


See above.

Had nothing to do with homosexuality.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about here.

It’s sad and evil, IMO.

Rubbish! It is a very Christian thing to say as it is God's Word not my words that says it, unless your trying to say the bible is not Chrsitian?

You promote your words to try and argue away God's Word, so your argument is with God not me. Your teaching and pomoting sin for which you will be held accountable because promoting sin is not Christian or a Christian thing to say or do.

Your clearly do not know what you are talking about trying to justify sin when God's Word calls homosexuality an abomination in God's eyes and says those doing it will not enter into God's Kingdom.

...................

"Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

...................

According to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 your deceived if you think you can practice homosexuality and enter into God's Kingdom.

Sorry friend God's Word disagrees with you.

 

[RESOLUTION]

I was a born again Christian as a young person, so I know all about that faith. It was when I started to read the Bible and question what was in it that my faith went down the nearest sewer.

You may have been born into a faith but that does not mean you ever accepted it. The bible requires understanding... not just of your present day world but the world as it was in each period of time when these people lived. If you read the bible without understanding and without knowing God then how can you really see it's purpose?

 

[RESOLUTION]

I did the born again thing when I was 11, but by the time I was 14 I began to have a lot of doubts about the faith. I read the Bible from cover to cover many times, and the more I read it the more like a fairy tale it seemed to be. I questioned the pastor of the Pentecostal church we attended, and his answers made me doubt even more. I lost my faith by the time I married when I was 19, 50 years ago this August. I certainly haven't missed it. I have no problem with moderate, live and let live Christians like our own three daughters, even if I don't see it their way, but I will always challenge Christian extremists, as their garbage can be very harmful and abusive.

How does your life reflect Christs?

I read the bible and even at 12 years old I understood how it shows God and his reasons for his laws at the time when men were unruly and even sacrificed their own children to idols.
God had to lead mankind to see their own evil and to know you reap what you sow. His way was for mankind to love one another. How would you show that such savage and heartless people were wrong in what they did?

God does not ask you to judge others he asks you to judge your own life for each is accountable for their own. Christ drew men unto himself by his own actions and life with God. How do you know that you would not draw those you judge unto Christ had you followed his example? Sometimes it is all to easy to judge others. To judge their actions and even to condemn if not careful. You are a parent so ask yourself what you expect of your children.

 

[JJ50]

You may have been born into a faith but that does not mean you ever accepted it. The bible requires understanding... not just of your present day world but the world as it was in each period of time when these people lived. If you read the bible without understanding and without knowing God then how can you really see it's purpose?

That is your take on it, I will never see things your way, even though I was a devout born again Christian for a year or two in my youth.