Buddhism & Discipline

[The Sum of Awe]

I keep reading that Buddhism practices discipline from many different sources, and I was reading a wikipedia article on Buddhist Dharma and it also said that. Here are the first few sources:

Religion in India is referred to as Dharma, a word which signifies a particular life-path or lifestyle (see Dharma). Therefore a Jain practises Jain-dharma; a Hindu follows Sanatana-dharma; and a Buddhist practices Buddha-dharma. Each of these formulations signifies that a person is following a particular religious form with its own rules and practises. The word Buddhism was invented by British scholars and Christian missionaries who were trying to make sense of Indian religion during the nineteenth century. Just as Latin and Greek have been the languages of Christian scripture throughout the greater part of Christianity's history Sanskrit has in the main been the medium of transmission for Buddhist scriptures during its spread to other Asian countries (particularly to the North and North-East of India). Throughout these countries what is today called in the West Buddhism has been referred to for centuries as it is today as Buddha-dharma. Since dharma refers to a particular life-path, Buddha-dharma signifies the path of the Buddha (namely the path of disciplined practise that Gautama Buddha undertook and espoused).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma_(Buddhism)

The fourth point on the path, right discipline, involves a kind of renunciation. We need to give up our tendency to complicate issues. We practice simplicity. We have a simple straight-forward relationship with our dinner, our job, our house and our family. We give up all the unnecessary and frivolous complications that we usually try to cloud our relationships with.
A Basic Buddhism Guide: Introduction to Buddhism

Want more sources just ask.


Anyone know about this? Do Buddhists literally torture themselves? No pleasure at all?

 

[DreadFish]

Hmm, Buddhists dont, by any means, torture themselves. Actually Siddartha had tried the route of extreme asceticism and found it to be of no use before he adopted "the middle way" and realized enlightenment.

The point is discipline, and the middle way. Not too much, not too little, and with control.

It's important to tame the mind, and to achieve this, we have to practice discipline in whatever we do. Mainly, one should be mindful of whatever action is being performed at the time.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Hmm, Buddhists dont, by any means, torture themselves. Actually Siddartha had tried the route of extreme asceticism and found it to be of no use before he adopted "the middle way" and realized enlightenment.

The point is discipline, and the middle way. Not too much, not too little, and with control.

It's important to tame the mind, and to achieve this, we have to practice discipline in whatever we do. Mainly, one should be mindful of whatever action is being performed at the time.

That's what I thought, but I don't understand what the websites mean then.

Also what do you mean by "We have to practive discipline in whatever we do."

 

[DreadFish]

That's what I thought, but I don't understand what the websites mean then.

Also what do you mean by "We have to practive discipline in whatever we do."

Well, keep your focus on the action at hand. When eating, eat. When walking, walk. Keep aware of yourself, and practice constantly.

There's a story that illustrates this: One day a young man was in the presence of a zen roshi. He asked the roshi "how do you meditate?", to which the old roshi responds "what is there to meditate on?" The young man was confused by his response and then inquired "then you do not meditate at all?" The roshi replied "when am I ever distracted?"

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I see.

So do you ignore desires such as walking to the movies. Eating big, juicy steak instead of TV dinners. Even if they do not distract the 5 precepts?

Could you accept those desires if you also accepted not having them when you can't?

 

[DreadFish]

I see.

So do you ignore desires such as walking to the movies. Eating big, juicy steak instead of TV dinners?

Could you accept those desires if you also accepted not having them when you can't?

Basically, you just experience things as they are. So, one wouldnt rejoice in pleasure, or weep in pain. Just accept and experience them as they are without forming an opinion about them. The point is to develoup a pure equanimity towards all things (people included). This doesnt mean a cold indifference towards everything, but rather a full warm acceptance of all things.

 

[Engyo]

I see.

So do you ignore desires such as walking to the movies. Eating big, juicy steak instead of TV dinners. Even if they do not distract the 5 precepts?

It isn't so much ignoring the desires, as it is not having an attachment to fulfilling those desires.

Could you accept those desires if you also accepted not having them when you can't?

You not only could, but must always accept that you have these desires. Again, it is the fulfillment of the desires, or not, that are where the problem lies. Don't attach to that fulfillment, and you are getting closer.

 

[wmjbyatt]

Anyone know about this? Do Buddhists literally torture themselves? No pleasure at all?

"Discipline" in this sense doesn't mean a redneck father taking off his belt "to teach the boy some dis'pline." We're not talking about torture and a lack of pleasure. We're talking about control, mindfulness, deliberateness, et cetera.

I believe that there ARE Buddhist sects that are relatively anti-pleasure, abstaining from material comforts and pleasures of any sort in order to cleanse the mind of attachment (I should point out that it's possible to abstain from comforts and pleasures without the radicality of true ascetism). At the same time, however, there are esoteric Vajrayana cults that roil themselves about in ritualistic pleasure.

The individual student's approach to pleasure is going to be largely dependent on the school and teacher with which they align their study. The Kalama Sutra tells students not to do or not do simply because they've been told so, but rather because it accords with their own understanding.

Personally, I enjoy the **** out of myself on a regular basis. The danger in pleasure is that it can create attachment. We have to discipline our minds to be able to move in and out of pleasure without attachment or we will suffer and we will beget suffering. But when pleasure comes your way, I see no reason not to enjoy it. The trick is to not assume that pleasure is part of the "reason" or "meaning" or one's life.

 

[SageTree]

I perceived this is what you mean by 'discipline' SOM....

redneck father taking off his belt "to teach the boy some dis'pline."

This is the answer imo:

It isn't so much ignoring the desires, as it is not having an attachment to fulfilling those desires.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It isn't so much ignoring the desires, as it is not having an attachment to fulfilling those desires.

Doesn't this contradict with this:

Well, keep your focus on the action at hand. When eating, eat. When walking, walk. Keep aware of yourself, and practice constantly.

Maybe I didn't interpret it correctly; but I think he was saying just do what you do without thinking about what you want.

You not only could, but must always accept that you have these desires. Again, it is the fulfillment of the desires, or not, that are where the problem lies. Don't attach to that fulfillment, and you are getting closer.

I meant, appreciating getting your cravings, but accept that you do not receive what you crave when you wish for them.


Like if I don't get that big steak I wanted, I'll accept not getting it. If I have a chance on getting it if it doesn't kill, steal from, or lie to someone then I'll go for it.

 

[SageTree]

I'm eager awaiting to see how this gets explained.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm eager awaiting to see how this gets explained.

It's like waiting for the end of a football game Exciting.

 

[SageTree]

I thoroughly believe Engyo come through with the two point conversion!

 

[The Rev]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like the question is, "Isn't an effort toward mindfulness also an attachment to mindfulness?" This would be true if effort were equal to attachment. However, in mindfulness comes a clear view of things, whereas in attachment there is delusion (the idea that one can create a permanent state of affairs, like happiness, by creating a given change).
:namaste

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like the question is, "Isn't an effort toward mindfulness also an attachment to mindfulness?" This would be true if effort were equal to attachment. However, in mindfulness comes a clear view of things, whereas in attachment there is delusion (the idea that one can create a permanent state of affairs, like happiness, by creating a given change).
:namaste

That's interesting, thanks for taking time to answer, but that wasn't my question.


I was basically wondering if Buddhists teach to ignore their cravings and accept their sufferings; or understand their cravings - try to get what they desire, but if the bucket falls on their head, accept it.

 

[idav]

I keep reading that Buddhism practices discipline from many different sources, and I was reading a wikipedia article on Buddhist Dharma and it also said that. Here are the first few sources:









Want more sources just ask.


Anyone know about this? Do Buddhists literally torture themselves? No pleasure at all?

In becoming disciplined a person would try be able more in control of actions. Sometimes it is very easy to laugh and cry and disciplining our emotions is very difficult. It isn't just about disciplining the harsh emotions. It doesn't mean there is never a time to laugh or cry just means we should no react as much. All action should be purposeful.

 

[The Rev]

That's interesting, thanks for taking time to answer, but that wasn't my question.


I was basically wondering if Buddhists teach to ignore their cravings and accept their sufferings; or understand their cravings - try to get what they desire, but if the bucket falls on their head, accept it.

I see. I think my Dharma teacher would say that you can't get what you want, ultimately, because the "you" part of the equation doesn't exist. It is in learning not to attach to things that we come to see this, and when we do, we become liberated from the illusion of self, and therefore from suffering. As for ignoring cravings and accepting suffering, it's really more about getting to know them, and learning what causes them to arise.
:namaste

 

[koan]

I want that! Craving! Craving/desire is thought induced habit (unless of course it's chemically induced). From the day we are born we begin to develop habits. How to behave around family, how to behave around friends, how to behave around enemies etc. These habits become so ingrown, we believe they are "US". Who hasn't heard someone remark after doing or saying something, " Oh, that's just me. " Well it's not just them, it's habit. Our ego develops along with our habits, until they become entwined and one believes that this is them. Discipline is needed when practicing, so as to overcome these thought habits and so establish mindfulness. Being aware that thoughts are just that, thoughts and nothing will come of them unless acted upon. Buddhism give one the tool to be able to be in charge of their thoughts and habits. This is discipline. In one way it's like being in the military, where one forgoes their habits to become disciplined in military habits. Funny sort of analogy, but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

 

[DreadFish]

Doesn't this contradict with this:



Maybe I didn't interpret it correctly; but I think he was saying just do what you do without thinking about what you want.




I meant, appreciating getting your cravings, but accept that you do not receive what you crave when you wish for them.


Like if I don't get that big steak I wanted, I'll accept not getting it. If I have a chance on getting it if it doesn't kill, steal from, or lie to someone then I'll go for it.

I dont see a contradiction between the two personally, they kind of go along side with each other rather than opposing each other dont they?

Being mindful of the task at hand is practicing discipline in being aware, focused and present. Not attaching yourself to the fruits of your actions is practicing discipline in non-attachment and acceptance of what happens.

Or am I misunderstanding what you meant?


EDIT: also, I wouldnt really say that anyone should ignore their cravings. Rather, you acknowledge them, dont attach to them, dont indulge in the feeling. Its just a carefree acceptance of them. "Yeah, its there." and then go about your business.

 

[SageTree]

EDIT: also, I wouldnt really say that anyone should ignore their cravings. Rather, you acknowledge them, dont attach to them, dont indulge in the feeling. Its just a carefree acceptance of them. "Yeah, its there." and then go about your business.

Would you say some reading about The chain of Dependent origination or dependent arising and where the weak links are would help expand the answer you gave above. That is definitely what came to mind when I read it.

I like the first part of your answer as well, Thanks for that.

:namaste
SageTree