Buddhist Have a Soul

[buddhist]

No, it really isn't, you are just making stuff up, adding in a load of stuff which just isn't there, or intended to be there. "The All" is the sense bases and objects, it really couldn't be clearer. Why can't you accept what it actually SAYS? Why the stubborn determination to add in stuff which isn't there?

So what do think the purpose of this sutta is?

What is the level of your personal experience with jhana?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Nope. As I understand the Buddha, the early suttas, and my personal experiences, the higher realities, realms, and states exist within the mind. We do not reach outwards to reach the higher realms; we go inwards. It is the grosser, lower realities which exist "outside".

Sutta support please. Formless jhana attainment is said to lead to rebirth in the corresponding realm.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What is the level of your personal experience with jhana?

Up to 1st and 2nd arupa-jhana. How about you?

Though I don't see this has any relevance whatsoever to the Sabba Sutta discussion.

 

[wizanda]

the meditator isn't magically transported into another realm.

Unless the person goes to the point of Arupa-Jnanan; which is similar to what we experience in a NDE.

the higher realities, realms, and states exist within the mind.

This is where I'm trying to make it simpler for everyone to understand, where by us Connecting the Øneness within each of us, we can all access the infinite wisdom, and unconditional love as our Source.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Unless the person goes to the point of Arupa-Jnanan; which is similar to what we experience in a NDE.

Have you experienced arupa-jhana then?

 

[wizanda]

Have you experienced arupa-jhana?

Yes in my NDE, that is why we're trying to help share.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes in my NDE, that is why we're trying to help share.

I don't think you have any idea what arupa-jhana is like, or why you would try to say it is the same as an NDE. Strange.

It's also strange that quite a lot of Buddhists experience these meditative states and don't become self-proclaimed prophets and make up DIY religions like you have.

 

[buddhist]

Sutta support please. Formless jhana attainment is said to lead to rebirth in the corresponding realm.

That the higher realities are within is my summary understanding from reading much of the suttapitaka of the Pali canon.

For example, the process of jhanic meditation itself, the progression from the lower to the higher jhanas, is the progressive "stripping away" of grosser elements. We first discard the outer world upon achieving the first jhana. Then then grosser mental elements are discarded to achieve the higher jhanas. And, like you observed, achieving a deeper jhana can result in rebirth in the corresponding "higher" jhanic realm.

Also, the standard expression of faith in the Dhamma states: "svākkhāto bhagavatā dhammo sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko opaneyyiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhī”ti." (e.g. SN 11.3, etc.). "Opaneyyiko" means looking within; the Dhamma is to be realized within. "The Dhamma is well-taught by the Bhagavata, to be seen in the here and now; it is timeless, and invites all to come and see, pertinent, and is to be [internally] realized by the wise for themselves."

The Buddha, during his paranibbana, could observe the devas and Brahmas which monastics with lesser mental achievement could not.


Etc.

 

[wizanda]

I don't think you have any idea

[GALLERY=media, 7635][/GALLERY]

arupa-jhana is like......................... an NDE.

Because we've got to leave the body behind, to ascend past such dimensions; it is no longer material reality, yet moves into realms of pure consciousness.

Buddha experienced these meditative states, and became a self-proclaimed prophets, making up a DIY religion.

[GALLERY=media, 7655][/GALLERY]

 

[buddhist]

Up to 1st and 2nd arupa-jhana. How about you?

Though I don't see this has any relevance whatsoever to the Sabba Sutta discussion.

I've touched the fifth jhana, and I ask that because, in my personal experience, the Buddha's description of the All corresponds to my own experiences. The deeper I go, the higher I also go, and less I become, the more of the "All" I seem to experience.

 

[buddhist]

This is where I'm trying to make it simpler for everyone to understand, where by us Connecting the Øneness within each of us, we can all access the infinite wisdom, and unconditional love as our Source.

I equate the "Oneness" you described with the eighth jhana/fourth arupa-jhana, but nibbana is beyond that - beyond the "One".

 

[wizanda]

I equate the "Oneness" you described with the eighth jhana/fourth arupa-jhana, but nibbana is beyond that - beyond the "One".

Yeah that is why i try to put Øneness (Zero-ness), as to define no self, within it....

1 (Oneness) and 0 (Øneness ) binary....

Yet once we go outside of the Matrix, it is blank HDD; which though perceptible, isn't for the young.

 

[buddhist]

Yeah that is why i try to put Øneness (Zero-ness), as to define no self, within it....

1 (Oneness) and 0 (Øneness ) binary....

Yet once we go outside of the Matrix, it is blank HDD; which though perceptible, isn't for the young.

I suppose that is possible; I haven't reached that state yet to comment whether it's true or not.

 

[von bek]

There is a real simple way to answer the question of, do you have a soul...

Check your music collection. Do you have a James Brown album? If yes, then you have soul.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I've touched the fifth jhana, and I ask that because, in my personal experience, the Buddha's description of the All corresponds to my own experiences. The deeper I go, the higher I also go, and less I become, the more of the "All" I seem to experience.

"The All" is the sense bases and objects, as the Sabba Sutta describes. You are talking about meditative states, which is a different subject.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

blah, blah, blah,

 

[Kartari]

Hi George,

Well veridical NDEs (where people including the blind) report real world events that they could not have learned through normal channels is pretty convincing to me. This along with multiple other areas of paranormal phenomena has convinced me beyond reasonable doubt of the inadequacy of the materialist view of consciousness.

I've explored stories in the past, including NDE's, and have even had my own interesting experiences (not an NDE though). While I have come to believe in the veracity of a few things we cannot objectively discern to be real, I have found that many experiences can be explained naturally, and it makes more logical sense to me to default to a natural explanation until shown otherwise. Chiefly, I have come to find psychic abilities among the more compelling paranormal claims due to personal experience.

I've not read or heard blind peoples' NDE stories, sounds interesting. If you have any particular links, I'd appreciate it thanks.

However, I wonder about and expect you can explain what motivates a person with no beliefs in the continuation of consciousness to care about the details of Buddhism. I can understand living a pleasant a life as possible and being nice to others, but I don't see how that can motivate me to be concerned about studying and practicing Buddhism. {It is my opinion that individual consciousness continues until Nirvana is reached and individual spiritual progress is progressive and not annihilated at death.)

The cessation of dukkha is a powerful motivator, whether we live just once or many times. And a life unexamined is not a life worth living imo.

That said, I first became interested in Buddhism back when I had an interesting and rather potent spiritual experience. I was more open to supernatural teachings at the time. I even explored Hinduism at the time to a lesser degree, as I was somewhat leaning towards a pantheistic belief system. I read the Bhagavad Gita a few times through, and learned about the practice and philosophy of yoga. I continue to do yoga as a meditation practice to this day.

 

[George-ananda]

Hi George,

I've not read or heard blind peoples' NDE stories, sounds interesting. If you have any particular links, I'd appreciate it thanks.

NDEs of the blind This is one example. A book has been written of a study of the entire phenomenon by a Dr. Cooper if you are interested.

The cessation of dukkha is a powerful motivator, whether we live just once or many times. And a life unexamined is not a life worth living imo.

That said, I first became interested in Buddhism back when I had an interesting and rather potent spiritual experience. I was more open to supernatural teachings at the time. I even explored Hinduism at the time to a lesser degree, as I was somewhat leaning towards a pantheistic belief system. I read the Bhagavad Gita a few times through, and learned about the practice and philosophy of yoga. I continue to do yoga as a meditation practice to this day.

Well, that's fine for you, apparently. For me, if I didn't have a belief in continuation of consciousness at death, I would be left unmotivated to the details and practice of Buddhism.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Well, that's fine for you, apparently. For me, if I didn't have a belief in continuation of consciousness at death, I would be left unmotivated to the details and practice of Buddhism.

It sounds like you are more concerned with adopting a comforting belief system than searching for the truth.

Would you really just give up your practice if it was confirmed there was no afterlife? If so it must be rather superficial.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The cessation of dukkha is a powerful motivator, whether we live just once or many times. And a life unexamined is not a life worth living imo.

Well said. In my experience another powerful motivator is curiosity, wanting to explore, understand and discover the truth of things.