Bully XL ban

[rocala]

@The Hammer " Don't ask me this while my child is dying thanks".
Out of respect and past friendship I won't. Blessings to you both.

I forgot to add - love to you and yours.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reading a link provided by @Augustus I found this quote on pit bulls:

Pit bull types​

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable.45 And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.

It should also be considered that the incidence of pit bull-type dogs' involvement in severe and fatal attacks may represent high prevalence in neighborhoods that present high risk to the young children who are the most common victim of severe or fatal attacks. And as owners of stigmatized breeds are more likely to have involvement in criminal and/or violent acts46—breed correlations may have the owner's behavior as the underlying causal factor.

Breed bans​

Most serious dog bite injuries (requiring hospital treatment) in the United States are the victim being a young child54 and the dog being un-neutered and familiar (belonging to the family, a family friend or neighbor).32,47,48,54 Therefore responsible ownership and supervision is key to minimizing the risk of dog bites in communities.

While some study authors suggest limiting ownership of specific breeds might reduce injuries (e.g., pit bull type,49 German Shepherd Dog50) it has not been demonstrated that introducing a breed-specific ban will reduce the rate or severity of bite injuries occurring in the community.8,51 Strategies known to result in decreased bite incidents include active enforcement of dog control ordinances,52 and these may include ordinances relating to breed.53

It looks to me that the ban on the breed is unwarranted.

Even though to me all dogs are killers. Well, maybe not if I had a maid that could vacuum the room every half an hour or so. Hypoallergenic poodle my Aunt Fanny!!

 

[Stevicus]

Most serious dog bite injuries (requiring hospital treatment) in the United States are the victim being a young child54 and the dog being un-neutered and familiar (belonging to the family, a family friend or neighbor).32,47,48,54 Therefore responsible ownership and supervision is key to minimizing the risk of dog bites in communities.

I noticed that this information reflects what was in another study I linked upthread, where it said that in 77.9% of all fatalities over a 15 year period were from dogs who were not spayed or neutered.

 

[Soandso]

That could be a very good explanation. I am not sure at all if it is true, but if that is the case then I would ease up on demands that they be banned as a breed.

To be honest, I'm not really aware of the studies and just go off of my own personal experiences. I googled an article and this came up. I hope it's useful

A Closer Look at Dogfighting

Although it is a felony offense in all 50 states, organized dogfighting still takes place in many parts of the country.

www.aspca.org

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide—including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario—the dog of choice for fighting in the United States is the American Pit Bull Terrier. Occasionally other breeds and mixes are reportedly used in street fights or as “bait” dogs used by some to train dogfighting victims.

This does not mean that the pit bull is unsuitable as a family pet. It is important to remember that any dog can behave aggressively, depending on the context, his genetic background and his upbringing and environment. When a dog is treated well, properly trained and thoroughly socialized during puppyhood and matched with the right kind of owner and household, he’s likely to develop into a well-behaved companion and cherished member of the family.

This is a biased article, so take that for what it is, but it does reflect my ideas on the matter for the most part

 

[Curious George]

That is the question I saw raised.

Obviously not.

???

Government had to do something. Tighter laws do not mean much to be honest, the ones we have don't mean much. In an increasingly lawless society, the last thing we need is that kind of animal to be available. The few that I have seen were all with highly undesirable people.
I am sure that I am treading on your dog loving principles but this dog lover has to live here, and I see no need for this breed to be here.

Rest assured, you are not treading on any principles of mine. I love animals, this is true. But I was hoping for intellectual conversation on the topic of the ban, the reasoning behind the ban, governments role, and the best way to the ends this ban hopes to achieve.

If you simply believe the breed is dangerous because you have been told so and do not want to apply any critical thought or justification for drawing such a bright line rule, that is okay. If you would like to articulate your thoughts and don’t mind a little pushback, then I would love to hear your reasoning.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To be honest, I'm not really aware of the studies and just go off of my own personal experiences. I googled an article and this came up. I hope it's useful

A Closer Look at Dogfighting

Although it is a felony offense in all 50 states, organized dogfighting still takes place in many parts of the country.

www.aspca.org

Although there are many breeds of dogs used for fighting worldwide—including the Fila Brasileiro, Dogo Argentino, the Tosa Inu and the Presa Canario—the dog of choice for fighting in the United States is the American Pit Bull Terrier. Occasionally other breeds and mixes are reportedly used in street fights or as “bait” dogs used by some to train dogfighting victims.

This does not mean that the pit bull is unsuitable as a family pet. It is important to remember that any dog can behave aggressively, depending on the context, his genetic background and his upbringing and environment. When a dog is treated well, properly trained and thoroughly socialized during puppyhood and matched with the right kind of owner and household, he’s likely to develop into a well-behaved companion and cherished member of the family.

This is a biased article, so take that for what it is, but it does reflect my ideas on the matter for the most part

Read my previous post. I used a quote from a source provided by a user that supports the bans. You should he pleasantly surprised.

 

[rocala]

If you simply believe the breed is dangerous because you have been told so

Well I read the newspapers.

If you simply

Why "simply" That sounds more than a little prejudicial. "and do not want to apply any critical thought or justification" again, heavily biased. "and don’t mind a little pushback" well I have been on RF a long time and I defy you find to any evidence of that.
I am quite happy to pursue conversation in a polite manner.

 

[Augustus]

Yet fireworks are more dangerous than kazoos. Your logic would call for banning fireworks too.

Not at all.

No more than supporting a ban on nuclear weapons would “logically” require you to also favour a ban on chopsticks.

I assume you support the ownership of certain things being restricted, and other things not being restricted too.

 

[Augustus]

Up here we have cougars, bears, and other large animals that a bully would be great at warding off. They also make good herding dogs (yes they can be trained to herd), they are fast and like to run.

There are plenty of other breeds that could do likewise, and don’t have such a bad track record of killing humans.

If there is a genuine need for working dogs of a particular breed, I’m not against specific licensing for those trained and who can demonstrate such a need.

We do this with other restricted things too.

There is no reason to ever ban a breed. Ever. The owner needs to take full responsibility for the actual training required of owning a dog, the actual hours of work involved in safely owning an animal that is descended from wolves.

When animals are artificially bred by humans to have specific characteristics, we should always consider the impact of this.

Some dogs bred to look cute suffer health problems from this, I’m not sure that should be encouraged either and I wouldn’t rule out restricting some of these breeding practices either.

 

[Augustus]

Reading a link provided by @Augustus I found this quote on pit bulls:

Pit bull types​

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable.45 And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.

It should also be considered that the incidence of pit bull-type dogs' involvement in severe and fatal attacks may represent high prevalence in neighborhoods that present high risk to the young children who are the most common victim of severe or fatal attacks. And as owners of stigmatized breeds are more likely to have involvement in criminal and/or violent acts46—breed correlations may have the owner's behavior as the underlying causal factor.

Breed bans​

Most serious dog bite injuries (requiring hospital treatment) in the United States are the victim being a young child54 and the dog being un-neutered and familiar (belonging to the family, a family friend or neighbor).32,47,48,54 Therefore responsible ownership and supervision is key to minimizing the risk of dog bites in communities.

While some study authors suggest limiting ownership of specific breeds might reduce injuries (e.g., pit bull type,49 German Shepherd Dog50) it has not been demonstrated that introducing a breed-specific ban will reduce the rate or severity of bite injuries occurring in the community.8,51 Strategies known to result in decreased bite incidents include active enforcement of dog control ordinances,52 and these may include ordinances relating to breed.53

It looks to me that the ban on the breed is unwarranted.

Even though to me all dogs are killers. Well, maybe not if I had a maid that could vacuum the room every half an hour or so. Hypoallergenic poodle my Aunt Fanny!!

As with most multi variant issues, the data is ambiguous. There are still pretty clear reasons to view certain breeds as significantly more dangerous.

Also, Other studies have shown the rate of dog related fatalities steadily rising, which may well be to do with certain breeds replacing more traditionally owned breeds.

When one of these breeds causes 55% of all deaths, is obviously more dangerous than almost all other breeds, and is specifically bred to have the characteristics that make it so dangerous, there is certainly reason to ban it, even if this can be debated.

Dog bans in some places are a useful way to get data to see if such bans can indeed increase public safety.

 

[Curious George]

Not at all.

No more than supporting a ban on nuclear weapons would “logically” require you to also favour a ban on chopsticks.

I assume you support the ownership of certain things being restricted, and other things not being restricted too.

Yes, but I realize that these need to be differentiated with more than x is more dangerous than y so therefore x should be banned.

 

[Augustus]

Yes, but I realize that these need to be differentiated with more than x is more dangerous than y so therefore x should be banned.

I haven’t seen anyone make such an argument devoid of context in this thread.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Know what it takes to own a specific breed and you won't have any issues.

Presumably these people below didn't, and all those who are amazed at the bad behaviour of their dogs - when it happens to them:

XL Bully dog attacked its owner while he was having sex

Scott Thurston, 32, was bitten by the two-year-old dog Hank at his home in Wales.

metro.co.uk

Man's testicles ripped off by XL Bully dog before it attacked woman

'He was writhing on the floor and said 'it's grabbed my b*****ks'."

metro.co.uk