burning the flag (yanks only)

[Valjean]

Which remindes me. How stupid is it to see someone burning the flag of a country, in protest of that country, when that is one of the only countries that will let it burn that flag in the first place?! (did that make sense?)

Why is it stupid? It's a real attention-getter during a protest. Would you rather protesters smash windows or throw bricks at police?
And where does this idea that America is one of the few bastions of freedom that will permit flag-burning come from? OK, I'll answer that: Domestic propaganda. America is no more free than than any number of Western European countries, and decidedly less free than some, and, unlike Western Europe, is becoming less free.

 

[jamaesi]

No, because people who burn the flag of their own country deserve to have the crap kicked out of them lol. It has nothing to do with an equality of harm; just an equity of reprisal. My official position is that people should be able to burn flags and the rest of us should follow the "law" and behave ourselves, but if the congress legalized the beating of flag-burners, I wouldn't take a position against it.

I would love to punch someone who called me or my love a "sand n*gger" because we´re Arab (Yemeni and I´m part Pakistani) but just because they did something I find ignorant doesn´t mean I have the right to hurt them.

 

[NoName]

Why is it stupid? It's a real attention-getter during a protest. Would you rather protesters smash windows or throw bricks at police?
And where does this idea that America is one of the few bastions of freedom that will permit flag-burning come from? OK, I'll answer that: Domestic propaganda. America is no more free than than any number of Western European countries, and decidedly less free than some, and, unlike Western Europe, is becoming less free.

Because if they were in any other country they wouldn't be allowed to do that. It's taking advantange of your circumstances. There's other ways to get attention than just throwing bricks or burning flags. Just being there gets attention. People love demonstrations. YOu don't need fire or violence to get more attention.

America is less free than Western Europe? I don't know where you're getting those ideas, but that's not for this thread.

 

[Pah]

Because if they were in any other country they wouldn't be allowed to do that. It's taking advantange of your circumstances. There's other ways to get attention than just throwing bricks or burning flags. Just being there gets attention. People love demonstrations. YOu don't need fire or violence to get more attention....

Then you don't mind what is being "said" but you would control how it's said? We might as well ban rap music and insist on debate from a podium instead of an answer from a recording studio.

 

[Darkdale]

I would love to punch someone who called me or my love a "sand n*gger" because we´re Arab (Yemeni and I´m part Pakistani) but just because they did something I find ignorant doesn´t mean I have the right to hurt them.

Well, call me violent, but if someone called you that, I would be offended if you didn't kick their butt... if you didn't, I would... or would if I thought I could get away with it. Fist fights should be legal, in my opinion.

 

[NoName]

Then you don't mind what is being "said" but you would control how it's said? We might as well ban rap music and insist on debate from a podium instead of an answer from a recording studio.

No, see, I wouldn't conltrol it (read my first post in this thread). They can burn however many flags they want. I just think it's sad they would do it in the first place.

 

[WillieHutch]

Buring the flag is an appropriate ceremony in many circumstances.

Personally, I think it is in poor taste when used for protesting, but I would hate to start putting unneccessarily limitations on our first ammendment rights.

i agree. if you need to burn something in protest, find another symbol. and if the only way you feel you can properly protest is to burn something, think about your options. there are more powerful ways.

 

[Majikthise]

The burning of the American flag is merely ignorant and thoughtless, and should not be treated as a criminal act.
It's like the soldiers who burned the dead terrorists bodies to goad them into giving away their locations. If they are dumb enough to do it because of some burning dead flesh, then they have let themselves fall into harms way because they can't make the distinction between belief and common sense.

The flag is just a symbol, like a cross or a swastika. People are more important than any symbol or idol, without exception. In these matters you must let your head triumph over your heart.

 

[Flappycat]

Actually, the US is pretty weak on political freedoms compared with other Western democracies. Where you get arrested in the US for waving around signs, other governments begin making arrests when the Molotov cocktails start to fly.

The only thing related to burning a flag that I would consider treasonous would be a law made against it. Criminalizing dissent is the worst and most insulting treason that you could commit against what the flag is supposed to stand for. All the fire harms is a piece of cloth.

 

[NoName]

People don't get arrested for waving around a sign even when they are breaking laws! Like some people get to stand in the middle of streets waving signs, and impede other people's travel, without getting arrested! I would like to see stricter enforcement. If people want to wave a sign, that's fine. But as soon as they impede upon my right to use roads that's gone a little too far.

 

[Majikthise]

People don't get arrested for waving around a sign even when they are breaking laws! Like some people get to stand in the middle of streets waving signs, and impede other people's travel, without getting arrested! I would like to see stricter enforcement. If people want to wave a sign, that's fine. But as soon as they impede upon my right to use roads that's gone a little too far.

Yup.

 

[Flappycat]

People don't get arrested for waving around a sign even when they are breaking laws! Like some people get to stand in the middle of streets waving signs, and impede other people's travel, without getting arrested! I would like to see stricter enforcement. If people want to wave a sign, that's fine. But as soon as they impede upon my right to use roads that's gone a little too far.

Oh, be glad you don't live in Europe. When Europeans get P.O.ed, they shut down the whole friggin economy. I'm not exaggerating.

 

[NoName]

Aren't you the guy who just said it was better in Europe?

 

[jamaesi]

Well, call me violent, but if someone called you that, I would be offended if you didn't kick their butt... if you didn't, I would... or would if I thought I could get away with it. Fist fights should be legal, in my opinion.

*shrugs* If someone wants to show their ignorance like that, then fine by me. At least I know they are such an ignorant person and can advoid them. If mine or his life was threatened, I´d sure as salt defend myself. But with names and the burning inanimate objects- no one is being harmed, except the easily offended.

Reacting violently just spawns more violence.

 

[Darkdale]

Reacting violently just spawns more violence.

In my experience, that kind of violence not only doesn't create more violence, but it also helps teach people to think before they act. I've had many a fist fight that ended up produce happy results for all parties concerned. There should be consequences for people taunting you or dishonoring your country, your family or your character. But, I know, fist fighting is like soooo 1992. Hopefully it will come back into fashion.

 

[jamaesi]

In my experience, that kind of violence not only doesn't create more violence, but it also helps teach people to think before they act. I've had many a fist fight that ended up produce happy results for all parties concerned. There should be consequences for people taunting you or dishonoring your country, your family or your character. But, I know, fist fighting is like soooo 1992. Hopefully it will come back into fashion.

I´m sort of at a loss about how being punched by an Arab will improve someone´s opinion of Arabs.

My grandfather was a veteran but I don´think someone burning the flag dishonours him. He didn´t fight for a piece of fabric, he fought for the rights and the land.

 

[WillieHutch]

My grandfather was a veteran but I don´think someone burning the flag dishonours him. He didn´t fight for a piece of fabric, he fought for the rights and the land.

my granddad was too, but i still thinnk there are other things to burn/ways to protest that are more effective

 

[Flappycat]

Aren't you the guy who just said it was better in Europe?

By my reckoning, it certainly is. Hoist the flag of red and black! I don't always approve of their actions, but I like their style .

 

[Ryan2065]

In my experience, that kind of violence not only doesn't create more violence, but it also helps teach people to think before they act. I've had many a fist fight that ended up produce happy results for all parties concerned. There should be consequences for people taunting you or dishonoring your country, your family or your character. But, I know, fist fighting is like soooo 1992. Hopefully it will come back into fashion.

Yea, in highschool one kid kept picking on me... Then I got up (in religion class) and punched him in the face... The teacher apparently did not notice (thats a plus for going to an all guys school). Later he wanted to fight me... then we fought, i lost, but he gained alot of respect for me that I would stand up to him and we became friends. =)

 

[Pah]

It is important to understand that freedom of speech has two elements that are both protected by the US Constitution - one is the content of speech and the other is the expression of speech. Court cases have upheld both. Any attempt, without admendment, to quelch flag buring as freedom of speech is doomed.

And we know how difficult it is to get admendments passed and when passed, to avoid unintended consequences. I can not for the life of me figure a way to stop destruction of symbols declared unconstitutional. We have had crosses burned on lawns for years and no case has been brought against the KKK for destruction of a religious symbol.