But you said you were okay with abortion...

[McBell]

I doubt you would be currently interested in having sex with him to have two children, right? Did he promise to give you a house? Or was it a promise to share a house with you?

And here is a prime example of what is wrong with the law you propose....

 

[ChristineES]

Do you mean to say you don't think it is morally wrong to break your word?
Or do you mean this as an addition to what i said?

Of course it's wrong to break your word, but even if a woman breaks her word, you still have to take care of your child-- Two wrongs don't make a right

 

[Koldo]

And here is a prime example of what is wrong with the law you propose....

Do you mean the one on regards to abortion?

 

[Koldo]

Of course it's wrong to break your word, but even if a woman breaks her word, you still have to take care of your child-- Two wrongs don't make a right

Then what should happen to the woman for breaking her word?

 

[Alceste]

I doubt you would be currently interested in having sex with him to have two children, right? Did he promise to give you a house? Or was it a promise to share a house with you?

I was totally clear: He promised me two children, a house to raise them in, and enough financial support to be a full time mother until they were school aged. He sealed this promise with an engagement ring and talked about it all the time, for five years. It wasn't an offhand comment in a moment of passion. I have multiple witnesses. He doesn't deny it.

If you want to err on the side of caution, you could assume that after 6 or 7 years I could potentially have been working and contributing toward mortgage payments. I'm 38 now, and would have greater difficulty conceiving and greater medical expenses than I would have at 27, when the promise was made. So is he responsible for these additional medical expenses, or just the house? And if I am artificially inseminated or adopt, is he responsible for child support payments for up to two children, which is what he promised me?

I don't see what difference it makes whether I would still want to have sex with him. What does that have to do with anything? A promise is a promise.

 

[Alceste]

Then what should happen to the woman for breaking her word?

People might not trust or respect her very much. She might lose some friends. Same as happens to ANYBODY who makes idiotic, deceptive or knowingly false statements. What do YOU think should happen to her (and to my ex-fiance)? That is the question.

 

[Koldo]

I was totally clear: He promised me two children, a house to raise them in, and enough financial support to be a full time mother until they were school aged. He sealed this promise with an engagement ring and talked about it all the time, for five years. It wasn't an offhand comment in a moment of passion. I have multiple witnesses. He doesn't deny it.

If you want to err on the side of caution, you could assume that after 6 or 7 years I could potentially have been working and contributing toward mortgage payments. I'm 38 now, and would have greater difficulty conceiving and greater medical expenses than I would have at 27, when the promise was made. So is he responsible for these additional medical expenses, or just the house? And if I am artificially inseminated or adopt, is he responsible for child support payments for up to two children, which is what he promised me?

I don't see what difference it makes whether I would still want to have sex with him. What does that have to do with anything? A promise is a promise.

The difference is that if you are not willing to hold him to his word then it doesn't matter.

As i asked before: Did he promise to give you a house? Or was it to share a house with you?

 

[Koldo]

People might not trust or respect her very much. She might lose some friends. Same as happens to ANYBODY who makes idiotic, deceptive or knowingly false statements. What do YOU think should happen to her (and to my ex-fiance)? That is the question.

I have already said what should happen to her.

 

[Alceste]

The difference is that if you are not willing to hold him to his word then it doesn't matter.

As i asked before: Did he promise to give you a house? Or was it to share a house with you?

He promised to buy a house and be solely responsible for all the expenses of our family until our children were school aged, while I stayed home to raise the kids. IOW, six or seven years of his his complete financial support, two kids, and a house. Without that promise, I would never have agreed to marry him (I wanted the kids more than I wanted him). Quit ***** footing around the question. It's exactly as straight-forward as your hypothetical situation. He promised me two kids and a house to raise them in. Then he broke his word. That cost me two kids, a house, and seven years of complete financial support. What does he owe me?

In order to get past your aversion to answering the question, let's say I DO want to hold him to his promise.

 

[Alceste]

I have already said what should happen to her.

What do you mean by "reimburse" him, though? If he's as much of an irresponsible, selfish fool as you present him to be, there would be nothing to reimburse him for, since he'd just refuse to pay child support from the get-go.

 

[ChristineES]

Then what should happen to the woman for breaking her word?

Lost trust in her. As Alceste says, it's what happens to people who knowingly make false statements or statements she never meant to keep.

 

[Alceste]

Lost trust in her. As Alceste says, it's what happens to people who knowingly make false statements or statements she never meant to keep.

Yeah, I knew we were on the same team, deep down inside.

Seriously, as a direct consequence of being a liar, a cheater, and a breaker of oaths, my ex has lost (apart from me):

- His child
- His home
- The mother of his child
- The respect of his mother and extended family
- The respect of his child's maternal extended family
- The friendship and respect of everyone who knows me or the mother of his child
- His best friend of 25 years (who is still my friend)

It's more than enough for me. I wonder what else Koldo thinks I should try to wring out of him?

 

[Koldo]

He promised to buy a house and be solely responsible for all the expenses of our family until our children were school aged, while I stayed home to raise the kids. IOW, six or seven years of his his complete financial support, two kids, and a house. Without that promise, I would never have agreed to marry him (I wanted the kids more than I wanted him). Quit ***** footing around the question. It's exactly as straight-forward as your hypothetical situation. He promised me two kids and a house to raise them in. Then he broke his word. That cost me two kids, a house, and seven years of complete financial support. What does he owe me?

In order to get past your aversion to answering the question, let's say I DO want to hold him to his promise.

The first part where he promised two children is pretty clear. And he should have sex with you until you get pregnant twice ( if you want him keep to his word ).

The second part where he promised to buy a house is terribly vague. Did he promise to buy a house for you? Or for both of you? Or something else? It is impossible to determine what was meant here without further clarification.

In the third part where he promised to be the sole responsible for all the expenses of your family until your children were school aged, while you stayed home to raise the kids, it is clear he should be paying fully for all the ( typical ) expenses of yours and the children ( until they become school aged ).

 

[Koldo]

What do you mean by "reimburse" him, though? If he's as much of an irresponsible, selfish fool as you present him to be, there would be nothing to reimburse him for, since he'd just refuse to pay child support from the get-go.

You assume too much.

 

[Koldo]

Lost trust in her. As Alceste says, it's what happens to people who knowingly make false statements or statements she never meant to keep.

That's all? So much for taking responsibility for your own actions...

 

[Alceste]

The first part where he promised two children is pretty clear. And he should have sex with you until you get pregnant twice ( if you want him keep to his word ).

The second part where he promised to buy a house is terribly vague. Did he promise to buy a house for you? Or for both of you? Or something else? It is impossible to determine what was meant here without further clarification.

In the third part where he promised to be the sole responsible for all the expenses of your family until your children were school aged, while you stayed home to raise the kids, it is clear he should be paying fully for all the ( typical ) expenses of yours and the children ( until they become school aged ).

Ah, but he never specified that the children be his own biological children, or that they needed to be conceived by means of having sex with him (yuck). Shouldn't he be on the hook for any children I might create or adopt with my husband?

If not, then surely it would be sufficient to compel him to donate his DNA through a reputable artificial insemination clinic, where I could then visit to get myself knocked up, twice, and he would be responsible for all the associated expenses. I shouldn't need to ever lay eyes on him again, or even think about him except when I am cashing his cheques.

With regards to the house, it was not at all vague. He promised to pay ALL of my expenses while I stayed at home (in a house that he bought) with two kids.

 

[ChristineES]

That's all? So much for taking responsibility for your own actions...

I know you've already said, but what would you expect? Jail time? Lashes? Being punished for 18 years by being a single parent (btw, single parents are among the poorest people in the USA). . Those all seem rather severe for breaking a promise. We've all broken promises at one time or another-- to our families, our children, our spouses, our parents, our friends. If we just punish women for not having an abortion when she said she would, then we'd should punish everyone who breaks a promise for anything at all. I mean, what's fair is fair. :areyoucra

 

[Alceste]

You assume too much.

It's the oldest story in the book. Boy meets girl, boy and girl have sex, girl has baby, boy is an immature, selfish coward and runs away from the responsibility of raising his own child. Is there something in this story you feel is missing? You don't think this happens?

 

[Koldo]

Ah, but he never specified that the children be his own biological children, or that they needed to be conceived by means of having sex with him (yuck). Shouldn't he be on the hook for any children I might create or adopt with my husband?

If not, then surely it would be sufficient to compel him to donate his DNA through a reputable artificial insemination clinic, where I could then visit to get myself knocked up, twice, and he would be responsible for all the associated expenses. I shouldn't need to ever lay eyes on him again, or even think about him except when I am cashing his cheques.

It is, at very least, implied he meant his own biological children.

With regards to the house, it was not at all vague. He promised to pay ALL of my expenses while I stayed at home (in a house that he bought) with two kids.

You must be kidding. You are being vague again.
Indeed, he promised to buy a house where you would live with the children. That much i understood.
However, to whom the house would belong is not being mentioned here.

 

[Koldo]

I know you've already said, but what would you expect? Jail time? Lashes? Being punished for 18 years by being a single parent (btw, single parents are among the poorest people in the USA). . Those all seem rather severe for breaking a promise. We've all broken promises at one time or another-- to our families, our children, our spouses, our parents, our friends. If we just punish women for not having an abortion when she said she would, then we'd should punish everyone who breaks a promise for anything at all. I mean, what's fair is fair. :areyoucra

Have you, at least, read my suggestion?