But you said you were okay with abortion...

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Bob gives his sister Janet money to buy food, knowing that she'll probably use it for drugs instead. She does use it for drugs, gets high and gets pregnant. She has no idea who the father is. Well, we don't want the kid to suffer, so let's make Bob help pay for the kid because he helped her get high, which led to the kid.

Yup, makes perfect sense. I mean, now that we've decided that the kid is the most important thing to the point of disregarding all other logic and reason.

Would you like some more straw? The straw man you're trying to build seems sort of floppy.

Do you really have problems with the idea that sex that results in a pregnancy is responsible for children in a way that other actions are not?

 

[Magic Man]

Would you like some more straw? The straw man you're trying to build seems sort of floppy.

Do you really have problems with the idea that sex that results in a pregnancy is responsible for children in a way that other actions are not?

There's no strawman. You're saying because the woman needed the man to produce the child, even though she was expected not to actually produce the child, he should be made to help, simply because the child shouldn't be made to suffer. Well, if the child not suffering is more important than the man's rights, then why not take it to its logical conclusion?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There's no strawman. You're saying because the woman needed the man to produce the child, even though she was expected not to actually produce the child, he should be made to help, simply because the child shouldn't be made to suffer. Well, if the child not suffering is more important than the man's rights, then why not take it to its logical conclusion?

Pregnancy is not a foreseeable result of giving your sister money. It is a foreseeable result of having sex.

 

[Me Myself]

Pregnancy is not a foreseeable result of giving your sister money. It is a foreseeable result of having sex.

There is a small chance she will get pregnant if you give her that money. More or less like your "failed kidney" case.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Here's what I think is a more fitting analogy:

Amy Graves has promised you, me and everyone else that a particular cutting board will be "the last cutting board you'll ever need."

http://www.proteak.com/wp-content/uploads/proteak_cooks_illustrated.pdf

If I was to get that particular cutting board but later realize that I needed another one (that one wears out, maybe... or I renovate my kitchen and find that this one is the wrong shape for my new cupboards), should I send Amy the bill for the new one and ask her to reimburse me? After all, she gave her word... and that's always binding, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is a small chance she will get pregnant if you give her that money. More or less like your "failed kidney" case.

And there's a small chance of pregnancy if you use contraception. Do you really want to open this door?

 

[Me Myself]

Advertising is given to hyperbole and exaggeration and it is not the same.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Advertising is given to hyperbole and exaggeration and it is not the same.

And since when hasn't seduction also been given to hyperbole and exaggeration?

Edit: BTW - that wasn't advertising. It was a consumer review article, apparently from a neutral publication.

 

[Me Myself]

And there's a small chance of pregnancy if you use contraception. Do you really want to open this door?

I was not the one to open it.

The way I see it, if you use contraception and the baby is still conceived you still shouldn't kill him before birth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I was not the one to open it.

The way I see it, if you use contraception and the baby is still conceived you still shouldn't kill him before birth.

Because, in your view, slavery is preferable to murder?

Since we're going in for hyperbole, we might as well go all the way.

Edit: regardless of who opened it, you continued with it. Are you arguing that we shouldn't be responsible if an event has a low probability of happening? If so, then this implies that a woman who takes measures to prevent conception shouldn't be responsible for carrying the fetus to term.

 

[Me Myself]

And since when hasn't seduction also been given to hyperbole and exaggeration?

Edit: BTW - that wasn't advertising. It was a consumer review article, apparently from a neutral publication.

Must say that is a fair point. In any case this kind of things are seen on case by case scenarios and the answer given by the jury/judge can get pretty arbitrary.

 

[Me Myself]

Because, in your view, slavery is preferable to murder?

Since we're going in for hyperbole, we might as well go all the way.

Slavery??? its 9 months of something the woman knew could happen if she had sex and the "master" wont have enough brains to catch a concept like slavery until some years after his birth. Its 9 months of discomfort, not slavery for Christs sake.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Slavery??? its 9 months of something the woman knew could happen if she had sex and the "master" wont have enough brains to catch a concept like slavery until some years after his birth. Its 9 months of discomfort, not slavery for Christs sake.

It's 9 months of the woman having her right to decide what happens to her body taken away. It's an extended denial of freedom: slavery.

 

[Me Myself]

It's 9 months of the woman having her right to decide what happens to her body taken away. It's an extended denial of freedom: slavery.

As much as not killing is an extended denial of freedom.

This forum has an extended denial of freedom by banning people who act like ***** or by having censored words.

There is a balance. She made a choice, and the being she conceived deserves to the very least the right to live.

 

[Willamena]

There is a balance. She made a choice, and the being she conceived deserves to the very least the right to live.

Tell it to Harry.

He's the one who wants to walk away without consequence.

 

[Me Myself]

Tell it to Harry.

He's the one who wants to walk away without consequence.

But by the logic of the legal system you want to propose, he should have the right. The woman had it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As much as not killing is an extended denial of freedom.

This forum has an extended denial of freedom by banning people who act like ***** or by having censored words.

We have a right to security of our own bodies. Nobody has a right to post on a privately owned internet discussion board.

There is a balance. She made a choice, and the being she conceived deserves to the very least the right to live.

Until that being is born, right? After that, if he's dependent on her, well, too bad for him.

 

[Willamena]

But by the logic of the legal system you want to propose, he should have the right. The woman had it.

The legal system I want to propose is the one we already have.

The woman "had it," but they both "made it."

He cannot choose to dismiss his part in the baby making, or his part in the consequence of that: child support. Those are his responsibility. He can walk away, but he must make provisions to cover his responsibility.

Edit: Child support isn't dependent upon any promises one parent might have made to another.

 

[Me Myself]

We have a right to security of our own bodies. Nobody has a right to post on a privately owned internet discussion board.

It was an example . I could say the same for any governmental regulation. I d say most governments limit the right of murder for people. Not completely anarchic ones at least.

Until that being is born, right? After that, if he's dependent on her, well, too bad for him.

She made that happen, so thats were responsibility comes in.

 

[Me Myself]

The legal system I want to propose is the one we already have.

The woman "had it," but they both "made it."

He cannot choose to dismiss his part in the baby making, or his part in the consequence of that: child support. Those are his responsibility. He can walk away, but he must make provisions to cover his responsibility.

Nope, the women made it, father just gave some raw material.

He shouldn't be responsible for something he didnt make.