By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[Polymath257]

Do you need a volt meter, a prod, it’s obvious to me as obvious as there is an engineer, architect, planning when I see an automobile, building, bridge. Or a computer, according to your thinking it doesn’t need software, just a hunk of metal, plug it in and it works.

Why do you think those are good analogies? None of those things undergo a process of growth and development.

That’s why it’s comical that you can believe human beings are reduced to just physical impulses by chemical reactions and that’s it.

Maybe instead of thinking it comical, you should look into why people who actually study this stuff think it is true.

We have been studying the brain for the last 150 years, the neurons for about 100 years, neurotransmitters for about 50 years, and have only mapped out important pathways for personality in the last decade or so. ANYTHING written about this subject that is more than 20 years old is badly out of date.

 

[Polymath257]

I already said why

And I pointed out why you are wrong: we would react differently because we are all *physically* different.

 

[Polymath257]

This whole thread and life demonstrates this, repetition is obviously needed.

Repetition of falsehoods doesn't make then true.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Repetition of falsehoods doesn't make then true.

Then stop doing that, the Soul is what drives the physical body, if that isn’t the case then everyone would be controlled by the environment. You would have no way to control what you do or don’t do.

 

[Polymath257]

Then stop doing that, the Soul is what drives the physical body, if that isn’t the case then everyone would be controlled by the environment. You would have no way to control what you do or don’t do.

Give evidence that there is a non-material soul at all.

Then give evidence that it 'drives the body'.

Then give evidence that the lack of such implies we would be 'controlled by the environment' in a way that we are not.

Then notice that 'we' are our brains states and yes, they *are* in control of (some of) our actions.

 

[Kenny]

Where did you get this definition?

from entomology.

psychologymodern | Search Online Etymology Dictionary psychology \

Modern psychology studies the mind and human behavior with a material basis. Scientists are not arguing that the undemonstrated exists and is doing something.

And that is the flaw in science, isn’t it? It never goes beyond what it sees? Doesn’t consider all possibilities?

Certainly we know how “Modern” can change meanings. Like “Modern” understanding that a man can be a woman and visa versa and then they go through great lengths of trying to convince people on how they are right.

I'm not sure what you last statements express.

If the mind, emotions, thought and feelings are the soul, then there is no evidence that it is immaterial as the conceptual definitions that you have presented indicate. And the above definition actual indicates it has a physical basis only.

That is the problem here. The physical basis is established by the evidence, but no immaterial basis is known.

Ok… where do we intersect.

We can all agree that we need a mind that will operate the physical body. And that we have a will and emotions. We can extract all the understanding of how chemicals are released to produce emotions (although we really don’t know why it does that. Why is there even an emotion of “love”, only that love produces chemicals or somehow chemicals are released at the right time to the right person to produce an emotion of love.

Sounds too complicated and it is here where we diverge. I will say Occam’s Razor will fall on my side that the soul manipulates the brain that produces the chemicals.

Of course, we will eventually agree to disagree.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Give evidence that there is a non-material soul at all.

Then give evidence that it 'drives the body'.

Then give evidence that the lack of such implies we would be 'controlled by the environment' in a way that we are not.

Then notice that 'we' are our brains states and yes, they *are* in control of (some of) our actions.

Go interview people, you already have dismissed those of us who have been involved in many lives of people and witnessed the Spirit, Soul and the influence these have in the physical body.
Maybe get some peer reviewed psychology papers, personally I haven’t needed those to see and understand life.
The Bible is my peer reviewed Book, all I need for life and godly living. Also explains the Spirit, Soul and Body, I’ve tested the Word in my life and found it true.

 

[Kenny]

Once again, give evidence that there is anything but the brain involved.

The question is whether there is anything non-physical going on. Up to this point, there is no such evidence.

Babies are a good evidence… they don’t start with a “blank soul” and then develop it.

 

[Kenny]

True. But we know enough to discard some views because they don’t agree with the evidence.

We don’t have to know everything in order to know something.

And in this case, you can’t discard my position on “soul” unless you are so entrenched in your position you choose to do so.

 

[shunyadragon]

If that is all it is is physical then everyone would be exactly the same and have the same reactions to life and work like an automobile or mechanical device, but we don’t.

This is a rather bizarre assertion does not reflect @Polymath257 's post and of course does not reflect the reality of the nature of human existence. The reality is that humans are and have always been a diverse species for over 300,000 years, and yes there is no objective evidence that there is anything beyond the physical. You need to realize that religious beliefs beyond the physical are diverse conflicting and subjective.

 

[McBell]

Go interview people, you already have dismissed those of us who have been involved in many lives of people and witnessed the Spirit, Soul and the influence these have in the physical body.
Maybe get some peer reviewed psychology papers, personally I haven’t needed those to see and understand life.
The Bible is my peer reviewed Book, all I need for life and godly living. Also explains the Spirit, Soul and Body, I’ve tested the Word in my life and found it true.

Big surprise.
Not a lick of evidence presented.

 

[McBell]

This is a rather bizarre assertion does not reflect @Polymath257 's post and of course does not reflect the reality of the nature of human existence. The reality is that humans are and have always been a diverse species for over 300,000 years, and yes there is no objective evidence that there is anything beyond the physical. You need to realize that religious beliefs beyond the physical are diverse conflicting and subjective.

You assume they are interested in something outside their box...

 

[shunyadragon]

You assume they are interested in something outside their box...

Huh?!?!?!

 

[F1fan]

Some on here need evidence on whether you have a Soul -Mind, Will and Emotion.

Soul isn't something well defined. It tends to be a metaphor rather than something material. Mind is s ert of functions brains perform. Will is defiend as a sort of drive and/or ambition. And emotions are what many conscious animals express, not just humans.

What are we to make of this? Maybe we aren’t allowed to say in this forum but it is quite comical.

There is no prohibition on explaining facts and beliefs. You get to claim all sorts of dubious and false things. But there are rules.

Let’s start with 2+2 = 4, I made up my mind to read the Bible and obey that today.

Obey what? You offer no math that makes sense.

The Bible is a collection of stories that were written for Jews. The offshoot religions have decided for themsleves to creatre new rules and dogmas. So sure, you get to decide what you obey, and no one recognizes any authority in it. You get your own Christian beliefs, and other Christians believe differently. There's no God observed setting any specific interpretation or doctrines. Christians get to decide whatever they want is the truth. That way 2+2 can equal 7. We see this in how so many Christians reject fact and science in favor of a flawed interpretation of Genesis. Catholics have been smart to adjust their beliefs to facts and science, and that makes them less probblematic for the believers in the 21st century.

 

[F1fan]

This whole thread and life demonstrates this, repetition is obviously needed.

No it doesn't. You don't offer facts nor a coherent explanation. You only repeat your religious dogma. That is how propaganda proliferates, by being repeated. Critial minds recognize this and reject it until adequate evidence and a valid argument is provided. You seem stumped by this as a true believer. Could it be you have been indoctrinated and unable to reflect on what you believe?

 

[Kenny]

No it doesn't. You don't offer facts nor a coherent explanation. You only repeat your religious dogma. That is how propaganda proliferates, by being repeated. Critial minds recognize this and reject it until adequate evidence and a valid argument is provided. You seem stumped by this as a true believer. Could it be you have been indoctrinated and unable to reflect on what you believe?

This sounds more like a rant than any substantive declaration.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is a rather bizarre assertion does not reflect @Polymath257 's post and of course does not reflect the reality of the nature of human existence. The reality is that humans are and have always been a diverse species for over 300,000 years, and yes there is no objective evidence that there is anything beyond the physical. You need to realize that religious beliefs beyond the physical are diverse conflicting and subjective.

What’s your definition of objective evidence and what is your objective evidence that there is nothing beyond the physical?

 

[F1fan]

This sounds more like a rant than any substantive declaration.

I notice you didn't explain why you think this. I don't care that you disagree. Most theists disagree with reasoned arguments. Theists just don't seem to understand why they disagree.

Could it be you didn't understand what I wrote, and/or just didn't like what I said, so you disagree?

Thoose who hold religious views never show that they came to a reaoned conclusion via facts, so could it be that you resist reason and fact where it comes to your religious position? If you say no, explain. No one cares what you believe, we care WHY you believe what you do, and if it is rational or not.

 

[F1fan]

What’s your definition of objective evidence and what is your objective evidence that there is nothing beyond the physical?

It's the same one used in ccourt and science. If you don;t understand what this is then do your homework. If you want to participate in debate you need to do homework. You seem to think your beliefs are true just because you believe them, and have little understand of anything else. Could it be your confidence in what you believe has more to do with ignorance than knowledge?

 

[Kenny]

I notice you didn't explain why you think this. I don't care that you disagree. Most theists disagree with reasoned arguments. Theists just don't seem to understand why they disagree.

Could it be you didn't understand what I wrote, and/or just didn't like what I said, so you disagree?

Thoose who hold religious views never show that they came to a reaoned conclusion via facts, so could it be that you resist reason and fact where it comes to your religious position? If you say no, explain. No one cares what you believe, we care WHY you believe what you do, and if it is rational or not.

Why do I need to explain a rant when it is a rant?