• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If one mistake was made on a page, no matter how small, that page had to be destroyed. These pages were on skins which got sewn together.
If I may--not sure when that started as to when the pages were destroyed if there was one error. I'm guessing it was right away but I don't know that. I know the Masoretes were fastidious in their copying. There is always so much to do and study, but hopefully I can make this another little project of mine inbetween housework, etc.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If I may--not sure when that started as to when the pages were destroyed if there was one error. I'm guessing it was right away but I don't know that. I know the Masoretes were fastidious in their copying. There is always so much to do and study, but hopefully I can make this another little project of mine inbetween housework, etc.

I don't know when it started and I doubt we could ever know that, but in Jewish tradition this has been the process. The synagogue I used to belong to did write a page, and it takes hours to write just one and is done so under supervision.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I don't know when it started and I doubt we could ever know that, but in Jewish tradition this has been the process. The synagogue I used to belong to did write a page, and it takes hours to write just one and is done so under supervision.
OK, I believe that. But I find it interesting that the synagogue would write a page. Anyway -- so be it. I guess all of the scrolls in the synagogues that they take out for reading are handwritten. Thanks for that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I hope this makes sense to you, I don't know if it will. But some people are said to be crazy. In certain words, "mentally ill." And others can be termed as evil, such as horrible killers, and mass killers, those who take guns and just start shooting at whoever. That is one reason why I will not be on a jury, especially if a person is maybe said to be mentally ill, maybe. Because God's law is higher than man's law. There must be a lot of mentally ill people around said to be committing crimes -- because the news has it that police and judges are trying to cope with the problem. Sad, isn't it. I think so.
"The popular belief is that people with mental illness are more prone to commit acts of violence and aggression. The public perception of psychiatric patients as dangerous individuals is often rooted in the portrayal of criminals in the media as “crazy” individuals. A large body of data suggests otherwise. People with mental illness are more likely to be a victim of violent crime than the perpetrator. This bias extends all the way to the criminal justice system, where persons with mental illness get treated as criminals, arrested, charged, and jailed for a longer time in jail compared to the general population. This activity reviews psychiatric illness and criminality and the role of the interprofessional team in caring for afflicted patients. ..."

 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
”But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.“
‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
”However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.“
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Yes, in Greek grammar rules a neuter can be presented as a 'he' but saying 'he' does Not change an 'it' to a him.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is a genderless 'it' at KJV Numbers 11:17,25 and Romans 8;16, 26 KJV 'itself'.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' and we know they remain neuter it.
Even our spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B

So, 'yes' we find 'he' at John 16:13; John 15:26 because of Greek grammar rules 'the helper' masculine in the Greek.
Thus, 'the spirit of truth' (we know truth is Not a person) but when God sends forth His spirit (Psalm 104:30) things happen.
The spirit is truth - 1st John 5:6,8 - which is found as Scripture being 'religious truth ' - John 17:17
At Pentecost they were Not filled with a person - Acts 2:4, 18
They received a 'gift' and Not a person - Acts 2:38
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't know when it started and I doubt we could ever know that, but in Jewish tradition this has been the process. The synagogue I used to belong to did write a page, and it takes hours to write just one and is done so under supervision.
Yes, the scribes Not only counted each word, but counted each letter and started over again if an error was found.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Amazing and wonderful!

I learned Spanish and English from 3 years old. Took one year of French - perhaps I will try to learn French.

Amazing you learning Hebrew!
I took 5 years of French. 4 in h.s. and 1 in college. When I left school I decided to go to a French club at NYU. I thought it would be really great. I could not understand one word -- <smile>. So although I did well in school, using it in real life is a different thing for some people. Some learn faster than others. My dad was not born here in the US but came as a young boy from Poland. Five years old. Parents didn't speak a word of English. He went to school in the US but had to quit in junior high because he had to go to work to help his parents. Interesting, ain't it? He was always a hard worker and a great ball player--golf and baseball. But he never spoke the "King's English." He would always say to me when he couldn't think of the word -- "You know what I mean, don't you"? And I would know what he meant and would say it. And he would say, "That's right, that's what I mean..." :) I will tell you this, Kenny -- I look forward to seeing my dad and my mother again in the resurrection. I know God reads hearts, He understands the mind and our circumstances.
P.S. I was an A student.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, and God used His spirit on people as found at Numbers 11:17,25 - 'it' (KJV)
Yes… on people but not joined Spirit to spirit and thus, as Jesus said, “you must be born again… for that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I took 5 years of French. 4 in h.s. and 1 in college. When I left school I decided to go to a French club at NYU. I thought it would be really great. I could not understand one word -- <smile>. So although I did well in school, using it in real life is a different thing for some people. Some learn faster than others. My dad was not born here in the US but came as a young boy from Poland. Five years old. Parents didn't speak a word of English. He went to school in the US but had to quit in junior high because he had to go to work to help his parents. Interesting, ain't it? He was always a hard worker and a great ball player--golf and baseball. But he never spoke the "King's English." He would always say to me when he couldn't think of the word -- "You know what I mean, don't you"? And I would know what he meant and would say it. And he would say, "That's right, that's what I mean..." :) I will tell you this, Kenny -- I look forward to seeing my dad and my mother again in the resurrection. I know God reads hearts, He understands the mind and our circumstances.
P.S. I was an A student.

That is a beautiful story and thanks for sharing. I truly believe your statement that “God knows the heart and the circumstances” and He judges with mercy that is higher that the heavens is from the earth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is a beautiful story and thanks for sharing. I truly believe your statement that “God knows the heart and the circumstances” and He judges with mercy that is higher that the heavens is from the earth.
OK, I will tell you this, Kenny. My grandparents (father's parents) came from Poland. There they lived in a town inhabited basically by Jews. I was a young child when my grandmother died in the U.S., the only memory I have of her was when she was in her deathbed, my parents were there and I was with them. I must have been three years old and I remember saying to my parents, "What's the matter with grandma?" And my father told me to be quiet. So I was quiet. I did not know she was dying. I have a picture of my parents with my grandmother before I was born.
Well, anyway, getting back to my upbringing, my mother would often tell me how persecuted the Jews were in Russia. She would tell me that I couldn't possibly trust a Christian, and especially Germans. I remember saying to her, "But Ma, they can't all be bad." And she said, "They're all bad." I shrugged. I went to a school where there were Christians and Jews, so we intermingled in those days very nicely in school.
Skipping several decades, and much in between, when I found out that Jehovah's Witnesses did not go to war, my first reaction (after arguing a lot) was that, these must be true Christians as they will follow Jesus to the death. That's all for now...:) Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
 
As a Christian I love this truth:
”But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭21‬-‭26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, in Greek grammar rules a neuter can be presented as a 'he' but saying 'he' does Not change an 'it' to a him.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is a genderless 'it' at KJV Numbers 11:17,25 and Romans 8;16, 26 KJV 'itself'.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' and we know they remain neuter it.
Even our spirit is a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7 B

So, 'yes' we find 'he' at John 16:13; John 15:26 because of Greek grammar rules 'the helper' masculine in the Greek.
Thus, 'the spirit of truth' (we know truth is Not a person) but when God sends forth His spirit (Psalm 104:30) things happen.
The spirit is truth - 1st John 5:6,8 - which is found as Scripture being 'religious truth ' - John 17:17
At Pentecost they were Not filled with a person - Acts 2:4, 18
They received a 'gift' and Not a person - Acts 2:38

I don’t quite agree as it doesn’t hold consistent throughout scripture. For an example:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

“Another”, in the Greek, is "one just like” - and Jesus is a person and not an “it"

And again, John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It is very specifically not an “it” but a “he”. Power doesn’t “teach” or “bring to remembrance”… and so many more examples.

It is true that in Pentecost they received “dunamis” but when Jesus breathed on the disciples, they received the person of the Holy Spirit.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
OK, I will tell you this, Kenny. My grandparents (father's parents) came from Poland. There they lived in a town inhabited basically by Jews. I was a young child when my grandmother died in the U.S., the only memory I have of her was when she was in her deathbed, my parents were there and I was with them. I must have been three years old and I remember saying to my parents, "What's the matter with grandma?" And my father told me to be quiet. So I was quiet. I did not know she was dying. I have a picture of my parents with my grandmother before I was born.
Well, anyway, getting back to my upbringing, my mother would often tell me how persecuted the Jews were in Russia. She would tell me that I couldn't possibly trust a Christian, and especially Germans. I remember saying to her, "But Ma, they can't all be bad." And she said, "They're all bad." I shrugged. I went to a school where there were Christians and Jews, so we intermingled in those days very nicely in school.
Skipping several decades, and much in between, when I found out that Jehovah's Witnesses did not go to war, my first reaction (after arguing a lot) was that, these must be true Christians as they will follow Jesus to the death. That's all for now...:) Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
I always find it beautiful when a child’s innocence can speak truth.

I wonder if this scripture applies:
Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Might be a little stretch but I would like to think so.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I always find it beautiful when a child’s innocence can speak truth.

I wonder if this scripture applies:
Isaiah 11:6
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Might be a little stretch but I would like to think so.
The problem remains that children from different conflicting religious backgrounds speak the 'truth' as taught them by their parents and peers, and by the evidence 95%+ do not change their beliefs in 'truth' when they grow up.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The problem remains that children from different conflicting religious backgrounds speak the 'truth' as taught them by their parents and peers,

That isn’t a problem as much as it is a reality
and by the evidence 95%+ do not change their beliefs in 'truth' when they grow up.
On this note, I’m not sure how one can determine that.


This is a phenomenon that is happening all over the world but people aren’t aware of it and it challenges the above statement IMV
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That isn’t a problem as much as it is a reality
It is a problem with the claims of wisdom from children that is no different from the beliefs of their parents.
On this note, I’m not sure how one can determine that.
The polls of changing within Christianity in recent history only reflects changes of less than a few percentage since 2007 points with non-Christian religions such as Islam and Hinduism showing the biggest gains, See: Chapter 1: The Changing Religious Composition of the U.S.


This is a phenomenon that is happening all over the world but people aren’t aware of it and it challenges the above statement IMV

I believe there is a great deal of speculation in this article concerning the amount of conversions in Iran, Indeed it does take place under oppression as in the Baha'i Faith.

I seriously question your "all over the world."
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It is a problem with the claims of wisdom from children that is no different from the beliefs of their parents.

Except that, as a child of my parents, I changed the way they believed.

The polls of changing within Christianity in recent history only reflects changes of less than a few percentage since 2007 points with non-Christian religions such as Islam and Hinduism showing the biggest gains, See: Chapter 1: The Changing Religious Composition of the U.S.

Which would be the counter of your position that children follow their parent's beliefs. So you have to decide whether or not your original statement is correct.

I believe there is a great deal of speculation in this article concerning the amount of conversions in Iran, Indeed it does take place under oppression as in the Baha'i Faith.

I seriously question your "all over the world."
You can question it. No problem. But even if Baha’i is growing outside of the family… then again, your original statement would be wrong.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
As a note -- according to the nation of Israel back then, parents were instructed to worship YHWH only (I say Jehovah in English). Children were to follow. Solomon gave in to his foreign wives towards the end of his life, and built places of worship to gods other than YHWH, he was strongly censured for that.
1 Kings 11: "Now the LORD grew angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10Although He had warned Solomon explicitly not to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD’s command."
Many do understand that the word LORD in the Bible really is a substitute for Yahweh or Jehovah. The point is that Jehovah was the God of Israel and they were to worship Him only. And He was firmly involved with what happened in Israel.
 
Top