By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[ElishaElijah]

That some people fall for the showmanship style of Christianity and are drawn to the even more silly versions of the faith does not mean that the numbers are not down. The people taking polls are not ignoring the people that you referred to.

There is that fake Hollywood showmanship that’s being rejected by young people and as a Christian I believe this to be happening in the church (believers and called out ones) in the last days, this is similar to what God is doing now and what young people are attracted to:

”When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’“
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Acts 2:1-16 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they | New King James Version (NKJV) | Dow

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they

bible.com

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a Christian I believe this to be true from the Bible and what people are looking for and finding now in many churches:

”And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.“
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭40‬-‭47‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is that fake Hollywood showmanship that’s being rejected by young people and as a Christian I believe this to be happening in the church (believers and called out ones) in the last days, this is similar to what God is doing now and what young people are attracted to:

”When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’“
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Acts 2:1-16 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they | New King James Version (NKJV) | Dow

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they

bible.com

Yes, the fake speaking in tongues, excellent example.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yes, the fake speaking in tongues, excellent example.

Some speaking in tongues is fake, some demonic (ask a witch), other tongues is praying in the Spirit and legit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Some speaking in tongues is fake, some demonic (ask a witch), other tongues is praying in the Spirit and legit.

Nope. It all is fake. Do you want to know why this has never been properly tested?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. It all is fake. Do you want to know why this has never been properly tested?

Maybe you’re just v13

 

[2ndpillar]

Actually no and you’re so out of touch with reality. Young people are sick of the philosophy of the world and are living this out because they can see through the lies being pushed on them:
”And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”“
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16‬:‭15‬-‭18‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Keep in mind that "Mark" was supposedly the scribe of Peter, whereas Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who would leave the "flock"/Judah/Jews, and go to Rome and preach to the nations/Gentiles. Casting out "demons" doing miracles in my name, was applied to those who Yeshua told, "I never knew you" (Mt 7:22-23). And none were "saved" and all died, for the "day of the LORD"(Joel 2:31-32 & Joel 3:1-2) has not happened, and "everyone will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30).

 

[ElishaElijah]

Keep in mind that "Mark" was supposedly the scribe of Peter, whereas Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who would leave the "flock"/Judah/Jews, and go to Rome and preach to the nations/Gentiles. Casting out "demons" doing miracles in my name, was applied to those who Yeshua told, "I never knew you" (Mt 7:22-23). And none were "saved" and all died, for the "day of the LORD"(Joel 2:31-32 & Joel 3:1-2) has not happened, and "everyone will die for their own iniquities" (Jeremiah 31:30).

I don’t agree at all with your view:
”But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬-‭10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[stvdv]

But you choose darkness and fear and threats as your only voice. Where is the love before all of this? It is absent in everything you post. You see burning people with the flames of hell as you first voice.

Why is that? Have you been hurt badly in your life, and if you can attack others it gives you a sense of power over them? Was that Jesus approach with everyone? Threats first, then maybe if they obey him, then he might show them love? Has this been your experience from others in life towards you?

I don't hear Truth in your posts. Only anger

That makes sense (Anger + no Truth)
Anger and Love don't go well together

 

[Kenny]

Sounds like a perfectly horrible concept of God. Why go through all of that to forgive when a simple 'I forgive' would be sufficient? Why place doubters in a place of torment instead of giving sufficient clear evidence to lead them correctly?

For multiple reasons and not to mention that a judge would look pretty unfair to let a murderer off without some sort of expression of justice.

But, in light of our faith, earth belonged to man who gave power and authority to Satan. For the power and authority to be given back to ,man, God had to become man to get back the authority of man and return it to man. To do it any other way would make God a liar and it wouldn’t have been legal. (very short version)

The deity you believe in represents an evil mindset.

Not really. It is a love mindset in as much as no greater love has a man than to give his life for another. God took our sins, paid for them so that legally, lovingly and wholeheartedly He could be one with man again.

 

[Polymath257]

For multiple reasons and not to mention that a judge would look pretty unfair to let a murderer off without some sort of expression of justice.

Like all sins being forgiven for merely believing in Jesus? How is that justice?

But, in light of our faith, earth belonged to man who gave power and authority to Satan. For the power and authority to be given back to ,man, God had to become man to get back the authority of man and return it to man. To do it any other way would make God a liar and it wouldn’t have been legal. (very short version)

Does that really make any sense to you?

Not really. It is a love mindset in as much as no greater love has a man than to give his life for another. God took our sins, paid for them so that legally, lovingly and wholeheartedly He could be one with man again.

And God did not actually die: at worst he had a bad weekend. And, let's not forget, he didn't need to go through the whole charade: he could have simply forgiven under the exact same conditions--belief.

 

[Polymath257]

I don’t agree at all with your view:
”But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.“
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬-‭10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

All this shows is that Paul went far beyond what Jesus preached. Jesus specifically said his message was only for the 'chosen people', meaning the Jews. Paul went against that (and the understanding of those that actually knew Jesus).

 

[ElishaElijah]

All this shows is that Paul went far beyond what Jesus preached. Jesus specifically said his message was only for the 'chosen people', meaning the Jews. Paul went against that (and the understanding of those that actually knew Jesus).

I’m having a hard time believing you read and understood the Bible at all.
Jesus said this:
”And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Kenny]

Like all sins being forgiven for merely believing in Jesus? How is that justice?

Actually, everyone is already forgiven and presented as a gift to whosever. God will not violate a person’s will. It is like a marriage proposal, marriage is offered but the other person has to say “yes”.

Like any gift, the person who is giving it has paid for it. However, the person who it is offered to must want to receive it with their hearts and mouth (so to speak)..

I went to a friends house with a gift in my hand—a 3 pound package of frozen good ground beef. Just because we love them and didn’t want to come to their house without a gift. His response was presented with anger, “Don’t you think I can provide for my house?” and he rejected it. Pride had set in but the gift was there.

It is justice in that someone paid for it.

Does that really make any sense to you?

Absulutely

And God did not actually die: at worst he had a bad weekend.

That is because we are defining “death” in our natural human understanding. Death in Genesis 2, in the Hebrew, is plural and encompasses spirit soul and body. Spiritual death is separation from God. When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me”, he was spiritual separated from the Father… a spiritual death.

In some sense, yes, it was a bad weekend but not just “bad” - it was the worst of the worst as he paid for all sin, for all mankind, for all eternity as it was written of him in Isaiah 52 MSG
He didn’t even look human—
a ruined face, disfigured past recognition.
Nations all over the world will be in awe, taken aback,
kings shocked into silence when they see him.

And, let's not forget, he didn't need to go through the whole charade: he could have simply forgiven under the exact same conditions--belief.

I think I already explained that in the previous post. Although, as I intimated, we all have free will to believe what we want to believe and/or to receive/reject any gift or any thought.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And God did not actually die: at worst he had a bad weekend. And, let's not forget, he didn't need to go through the whole charade: he could have simply forgiven under the exact same conditions--belief.

This is an unreal statement here, I can’t imagine you talking to a person that was abused, naked, betrayed, rejected, beaten, scourged, mocked, jeered at, crucified, having the full weight of the wrath of God on Himself, abandoned and you say something like. Bro, what’s the big deal so you had a bad weekend…

 

[Polymath257]

This is an unreal statement here, I can’t imagine you talking to a person that was abused, naked, betrayed, rejected, beaten, scourged, mocked, jeered at, crucified, having the full weight of the wrath of God on Himself, abandoned and you say something like. Bro, what’s the big deal so you had a bad weekend…

There are many political prisoners today that undergo much more than what Jesus did. His 'torment' lasted at most a day. Theirs last years. He was 'resurrected' after three days. They continue to be tormented for ages.

Yes, what Jesus endured was a bad weekend. Many people throughout the ages have endured much more.

BTW: where does it say in the Bible that Jesus endured the 'full weight of the wrath of God'?

 

[Polymath257]

I’m having a hard time believing you read and understood the Bible at all.
Jesus said this:
”And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬-‭20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Mark 7:26-30

His message wasn't for the Gentile 'dogs', although he made an exception.

 

[Polymath257]

Actually, everyone is already forgiven and presented as a gift to whosever. God will not violate a person’s will. It is like a marriage proposal, marriage is offered but the other person has to say “yes”.

And, once again, the whole charade is unnecessary.

Like any gift, the person who is giving it has paid for it. However, the person who it is offered to must want to receive it with their hearts and mouth (so to speak)..

I went to a friends house with a gift in my hand—a 3 pound package of frozen good ground beef. Just because we love them and didn’t want to come to their house without a gift. His response was presented with anger, “Don’t you think I can provide for my house?” and he rejected it. Pride had set in but the gift was there.

It is justice in that someone paid for it.

Not the person responsible. That isn't justice.

Absulutely


That is because we are defining “death” in our natural human understanding. Death in Genesis 2, in the Hebrew, is plural and encompasses spirit soul and body. Spiritual death is separation from God. When Jesus said, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me”, he was spiritual separated from the Father… a spiritual death.

In some sense, yes, it was a bad weekend but not just “bad” - it was the worst of the worst as he paid for all sin, for all mankind, for all eternity as it was written of him in Isaiah 52 MSG
He didn’t even look human—
a ruined face, disfigured past recognition.
Nations all over the world will be in awe, taken aback,
kings shocked into silence when they see him.

First, show that verse is about Jesus. Many people have been tortured, so a discussion of torture does not necessarily mean it is about Jesus.

Second, Jesus supposedly lived through this. In fact, it was over in a few days. Political prisoners endure far more on a regular basis.

I think I already explained that in the previous post. Although, as I intimated, we all have free will to believe what we want to believe and/or to receive/reject any gift or any thought.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Mark 7:26-30

His message wasn't for the Gentile 'dogs', although he made an exception.

He sure did make an exception and gave the marching orders the the Apostles in person and through the Holy Spirit like He is doing right now through believers.
Also, there’s things our family knows and understands but because you aren’t in our family you wouldn’t know or understand unless you lived with us awhile and vice versa.
The Bible and understanding what Jesus meant and means is similar, when you enter into the family
and have relationships you start to understand.

 

[Polymath257]

He sure did make an exception and gave the marching orders the the Apostles in person and through the Holy Spirit like He is doing right now through believers.

Such is your claim. Jesus preached to the Jews. Paul changed that message and preached to the Gentiles. Since Paul never met Jesus (except in visions), his views are, at least, suspect. This is especially true since those that knew Jesus disagreed with Paul.

Also, there’s things our family knows and understands but because you aren’t in our family you wouldn’t know or understand unless you lived with us awhile and vice versa.

And you claim atheists are arrogant? What your 'family' knows is a distortion from the original. This is to be expected since the original doesn't have a message that appeals to those who are not Jewish.

The Bible and understanding what Jesus meant and means is similar, when you enter into the family
and have relationships you start to understand.

Understanding comes *before* belief, as does skepticism and testing. ANY doctrine that insists on belief prior to testing is automatically doubtful.