By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[ElishaElijah]

Quoting from the false prophet Paul doesn't make your case. Simply go to Luke (comrade of Paul) (Acts 15:7), you get the opposite quote. And in Galatians 2, Paul derides James, Peter, and John, by calling them "seemed to be pillars", as if Paul was the only Pillar. Well, in Paul's mind, he is the pillar of his "Christian" church. I kind of agree with Paul, except that Paul leans on the unknown author of 2 Peter for his support.

What you’re not understanding is “What does the Bible teach and mean”. We aren’t talking about what you think of Paul.
If you consider yourself a Christian then all Scripture is inspired by God from Genesis to Revelation. Paul isn’t a false prophet and Scripture supports the letters he wrote and the Holy Spirit also confirmed the message with signs, wonders and a demonstration of power.

 

[Polymath257]

What you’re not understanding is “What does the Bible teach and mean”. We aren’t talking about what you think of Paul.
If you consider yourself a Christian then all Scripture is inspired by God from Genesis to Revelation. Paul isn’t a false prophet and Scripture supports the letters he wrote and the Holy Spirit also confirmed the message with signs, wonders and a demonstration of power.

By your definition of Christian. But, for example, the Nestorian Christians don’t accept the Nicene greed and Arians didn’t accept the Trinity. Christian’s don’t have to accept the Bible as literally true. Some accept it as metaphor. Some don’t accept Paul as authoritative.

And one point that is important for me is that there is no way to decide who is correct or even who is incorrect. That to me says that there is no truth in any of these views.

 

[ElishaElijah]

By your definition of Christian. But, for example, the Nestorian Christians don’t accept the Nicene greed and Arians didn’t accept the Trinity. Christian’s don’t have to accept the Bible as literally true. Some accept it as metaphor. Some don’t accept Paul as authoritative.

And one point that is important for me is that there is no way to decide who is correct or even who is incorrect. That to me says that there is no truth in any of these views.

If a person doesn’t accept the Bible as the Word of God then no they aren’t believers, born again, part of the Body of Christ - Christian

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a Christian, I believe this to be true:

”Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.“
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[McBell]

If a person doesn’t accept the Bible as the Word of God then no they aren’t believers, born again, part of the Body of Christ - Christian

Says you.
Problem is, I do not see you as any kind of authority on Christianity.
I seriously doubt anyone else who does not follow your particular brand of Christianity does either.

 

[Kenny]

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I base my views on scholars of the Bible that are also familiar with the history and the archeology.

I would encourage you to read some Biblical scholars, not simply those that agree with you.

I think that sword cuts in both directions, not to mention that archaeology tends to support the history of the Bible. (not to mention that even archaeologist can misinterpret the information they find.)

 

[Kenny]

As a Christian, I believe this to be true:

”Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.“
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I love that scripture! Yes, even Peter (and Acts) support the reality of Paul’s writings.

What is even more poignant, is that there is absolutely no writings of his era that was against the writing of Paul. It’s only “modern” scholars, who didn’t live in that time, that spin the life of Paul to their “modern” interpretations.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Says you.
Problem is, I do not see you as any kind of authority on Christianity.
I seriously doubt anyone else who does not follow your particular brand of Christianity does either.

Since you are commenting I’d like to know where you stand as far as being a Christian? When did you repent and believe the Gospel, born again and baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ?
Show me anywhere in Scripture that supports your view.
I really could care less what ANY man says, I go by what God has said in the Scriptures and if someone shows me from the Scripture where I
am wrong, that’s when I change

 

[McBell]

Since you are commenting I’d like to know where you stand as far as being a Christian?

I am not.

When did you repent and believe the Gospel, born again and baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ?

Late 60's

Show me anywhere in Scripture that supports your view.

What view?

I really could care less what ANY man says, I go by what God has said in the Scriptures and if someone shows me from the Scripture where I
am wrong, that’s when I change

When did I say you were wrong?
I merely stated the fact that I do not see you as an authority on Christianity.
That you take offence to that is a you problem.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I am not.


Late 60's


What view?


When did I say you were wrong?
I merely stated the fact that I do not see you as an authority on Christianity.
That you take offence to that is a you problem.

I do have that authority given to me by God as His ambassador and accountable to Him for teaching what the Bible says, so if you or anyone believe I’m teaching a false teaching bring it up and use your Scripture reference. As far as taking offense to what you say or said no I don’t. Thanks for clearing up your position and what you meant. Over these platforms and text instead of face to face a lot gets
lost in communication.

 

[McBell]

I do have that authority given to me by God ...

Says you.
Problem is, I do not see you as any kind of authority on Christianity.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Says you.
Problem is, I do not see you as any kind of authority on Christianity.

You don’t have to see me as having authority, you didn’t appoint me, God did. I didn’t take this upon myself, He gave it to me.

”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.“
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[2ndpillar]

What you’re not understanding is “What does the Bible teach and mean”. We aren’t talking about what you think of Paul.
If you consider yourself a Christian then all Scripture is inspired by God from Genesis to Revelation. Paul isn’t a false prophet and Scripture supports the letters he wrote and the Holy Spirit also confirmed the message with signs, wonders and a demonstration of power.

How many errors of logic and history have you just breached? Paul wrote by way of the "holy spirit" by way of Paul saying so, as in his own witness, except in the case of his exclusion regarding his statements on women. Now according to the testimony of Yeshua and the Scripture, if one self-witnesses, their testimony is "not true" (John 5:31). The canon of your "inspired" Scripture, was done in 367 A.D. by the bishop Athanasius, a guy who was pro Trinitarian (a commonly held false doctrine) at the Council of Nicaea. The guy was jubilant over the painful death of Arius. As for those who follow the false gospel of grace/cross, which is those "who practice lawlessness", and who cast out demons and performed miracles, Yeshua will tell them, "I never knew you" (Mt 7:22-23). One other thing, among many, that Yeshua said, was if they say to you "He is in the wilderness", which Paul actually said, "do not believe them. (Mt 24:26).

John 5:31-47 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How many errors of logic and history have you just breached? Paul wrote by way of the "holy spirit" by way of Paul saying so, as in his own witness, except in the case of his exclusion regarding his statements on women. Now according to the testimony of Yeshua and the Scripture, if one self-witnesses, their testimony is "not true" (John 5:31). The canon of your "inspired" Scripture, was done in 367 A.D. by the bishop Athanasius, a guy who was pro Trinitarian (a commonly held false doctrine) at the Council of Nicaea. The guy was jubilant over the painful death of Arius. As for those who follow the false gospel of grace/cross, which is those "who practice lawlessness", and who cast out demons and performed miracles, Yeshua will tell them, "I never knew you" (Mt 7:22-23). One other thing, among many, that Yeshua said, was if they say to you "He is in the wilderness", which Paul actually said, "do not believe them. (Mt 24:26).

John 5:31-47 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

Well, so you don’t believe Scripture is the Word of God and by what you post don’t know what they mean.
What do you believe the Bible teaches on how a person can recieve Eternal Life?

 

[2ndpillar]

You don’t have to see me as having authority, you didn’t appoint me, God did. I didn’t take this upon myself, He gave it to me.

”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.“
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬-‭21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You quote Paul to bolster your position. Your quote only bolsters your position with regard to being a comrade of Paul. Paul's gospel of the cross was antithetical to Yeshua's gospel of the kingdom. Being a comrade of Paul, leaves you at odds with Yeshua, although Yeshua tells his slaves to leave the tares alone, so that the "message" of the "son of man", which is written alongside of the "message" of the "evil one", gets published throughout the world (Mt 13), but the time comes when the "tares" will be the "first" to be "gathered" and then thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:30). That time appears to be just behind the door (Mt 24).

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Says you.
Problem is, I do not see you as any kind of authority on Christianity.
I seriously doubt anyone else who does not follow your particular brand of Christianity does either.

Christians accusing other Christians of not being true followers of Jesus is as old as Christianity itself, as is their incessant bickering (1 Corinthians 1:10–17). Various sects of Christians have their own interpretation of the Bible, but their interpretations are vastly different and contradictory. The fact is that they are widely divided on how to accurately interpret the Bible, yet they apparently believe that their interpretation is the only valid one. They will also insist that other Christians who interpret the Bible differently are wrong about their beliefs. They can't even agree on what the Bible says about salvation, which is the fundamental tenet of Christianity. For example, Calvinism vs. Arminianism is an ongoing dispute among them. Some of them believe that salvation is unconditional, while others do not. And yet other Christians believe that speaking in tongues or baptism are required for salvation. The irony is that they all quote scriptures that they believe support their beliefs, and they all claim to have "spiritual discernment" from the Holy Spirit, which enables them to properly understand the Bible. They all quote the Bible in their attempts to defend their belief, but it is obvious that their belief, as well as their diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, are undoubtedly contradictory. It's not surprising that there are so many different churches.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You quote Paul to bolster your position. Your quote only bolsters your position with regard to being a comrade of Paul. Paul's gospel of the cross was antithetical to Yeshua's gospel of the kingdom. Being a comrade of Paul, leaves you at odds with Yeshua, although Yeshua tells his slaves to leave the tares alone, so that the "message" of the "son of man", which is written alongside of the "message" of the "evil one", gets published throughout the world (Mt 13), but the time comes when the "tares" will be the "first" to be "gathered" and then thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:30). That time appears to be just behind the door (Mt 24).

What do you believe the Bible - The Word of God teaches on how a person can receive Eternal Life?

 

[2ndpillar]

Well, so you don’t believe Scripture is the Word of God and by what you post don’t know what they mean.
What do you believe the Bible teaches on how a person can recieve Eternal Life?

Those that receive "eternal life" are those written in the book of life (Rev 20:15). With respect to Mt 25, it will not be those who didn't give sustenance to the poor (Mt 25:45-46), whereas the "righteous" will go into "eternal life". As for the difference between "righteousness" and "wickedness" (sinful behavior), that will not become apparent until the "end" (Malachi 3:17-18). Until the end, apparently the leaven of the Pharisee (hypocrisy & doublemindedness) will prevail.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Christians accusing other Christians of not being true believers is as old as Christianity itself, as is their incessant bickering (1 Corinthians 1:10–17). Various sects of Christians have their own interpretation of the Bible, but their interpretations are vastly different and contradictory. The fact is that they are widely divided on how to accurately interpret the Bible, yet they apparently believe that their interpretation is the only valid one. They will also insist that other Christians who interpret the Bible differently are wrong in their beliefs. They can't even agree on what the Bible says about salvation, which is the fundamental tenet of Christianity. For example, Calvinism vs. Arminianism is an ongoing dispute among them. Some of them believe that salvation is unconditional, while others do not. And yet other Christians believe that speaking in tongues or baptism are required for salvation. The irony is that they all quote scriptures that they believe support their beliefs, and they all claim to have "spiritual discernment" from the Holy Spirit, which enables them to properly understand the Bible. They all quote the Bible in their attempts to defend their belief, but it is quite obvious that their belief, as well as their diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, are undoubtedly contradictory.

I find many of the attitudes I see expressed by those claiming to be Christian to be repellent and I don't see anything loving about the attitudes of some. I don't recall reading that Christ behaved the way I see sometimes.

 

[2ndpillar]

Christians accusing other Christians of not being true believers is as old as Christianity itself, as is their incessant bickering (1 Corinthians 1:10–17). Various sects of Christians have their own interpretation of the Bible, but their interpretations are vastly different and contradictory. The fact is that they are widely divided on how to accurately interpret the Bible, yet they all apparently believe that their interpretation is the only valid one while insisting that other Christians who interpret the Bible differently are wrong in their beliefs. They can't even agree on what the Bible says about salvation, which is the fundamental tenet of Christianity. For example, Calvinism vs. Arminianism is an ongoing dispute among them. Some of them believe that salvation is unconditional, while others do not. And yet other Christians believe that speaking in tongues or baptism are required for salvation. The irony is that they all quote scriptures that they believe support their beliefs, and they all claim to have "spiritual discernment" from the Holy Spirit, which enables them to properly understand the Bible. They all quote the Bible in their attempts to defend their belief, but it is quite obvious that their belief, as well as their diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, are undoubtedly contradictory.

It is not just that these "believers" are contradictory, but the NT is as well. 2/3 of the NT is written by the false prophet Paul and his comrades, for whom Paul claims to be all things to all men, whose "message", the gospel of grace (lawlessness), the "message" of the "enemy", is to prevail until the "end of the age", under the protection of the "son of man" (Mt 13:24-30).