By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[Windwalker]

@Windwalker One expression Jesus used helps to understand this at John chapter 4. He was speaking to a woman at a well and told her, “Anyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again; 14 but whoever drinks the water that I will give him shall have no thirst forevermore, but the water that I will give him shall become in him a fountain of gushing water to eternal life.” Of course that was an illustration. What do you think Jesus meant by that?

I'm thinking that doesn't have anything to do with your stating that being a Christian means you have to study the Bible. What I think Jesus meant by that is that spiritual fulfillment comes from God.

 

[Windwalker]

I think the message of Yeshua was to heed his message per Matthew 7:24, and to not heed the "message" of the "enemy"/"devil" (Matthew 13:30 & 38-49) which was planted right next to his own message, and the message of the "enemy" will remain growing until the "end of the age". The effort of the Gentile church, the church of Paul, is to make the "Word" made flesh, "obsolete" and "ready to disappear" (Hebrews 8:13).

I hear you have a lot of hatred of others in your posts, and never love.

 

[2ndpillar]

There are differences obviously between the message of the "enemy" and message of God. Yes, we need to know the difference. That requires study and prayer.

The difference is explicit, in that the "message (tare seed) of the enemy" is related to the "tares" (Mt 13:41) in that the "tares" will "commit lawlessness", as in the message of the "enemy", is the false gospel of grace, whereas the "law" has been nailed to a cross, whereupon lawlessness prevails.

 

[2ndpillar]

I hear you have a lot of hatred of others in your posts, and never love.

I don't know, I am quoting the "Word"/Scripture and Yeshua and his message of the "kingdom of heaven", whereas the "wicked"/lawless will not understand (Mt 13:13-15 & Danie 12:10), and instead of coming to the light, will be attracted to the darkness (Isaiah 5:20). One rejects or makes the "Word" "obsolete" at their own peril. Yeshua's message was "repent" or be "gathered" and "burned" (Mt 3) & Mt 13:30)

The prophet Isaiah warns the people of God against making the wrong choice: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness. — Isaiah 5:20

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know, I am quoting the "Word"/Scripture and Yeshua and his message of the "kingdom of heaven", whereas the "wicked"/lawless will not understand (Mt 13:13-15 & Danie 12:10), and instead of coming to the light, will be attracted to the darkness (Isaiah 5:20). One rejects or makes the "Word" "obsolete" at their own peril. Yeshua's message was "repent" or be "gathered" and "burned" (Mt 3) & Mt 13:30)

The prophet Isaiah warns the people of God against making the wrong choice: Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness. — Isaiah 5:20

But you choose darkness and fear and threats as your only voice. Where is the love before all of this? It is absent in everything you post. You see burning people with the flames of hell as you first voice.

Why is that? Have you been hurt badly in your life, and if you can attack others it gives you a sense of power over them? Was that Jesus approach with everyone? Threats first, then maybe if they obey him, then he might show them love? Has this been your experience from others in life towards you?

I don't hear Truth in your posts. Only anger.

 

[2ndpillar]

But you choose darkness and fear and threats as your only voice. Where is the love before all of this? It is absent in everything you post. You see burning people with the flames of hell as you first voice.

Why is that? Have you been hurt badly in your life, and if you can attack others it gives you a sense of power over them? Was that Jesus approach with everyone? Threats first, then maybe if they obey him, then he might show them love? Has this been your experience from others in life towards you?

I don't hear Truth in your posts. Only anger.

Those of the dark are attracted to the dark. Those of the light are attracted to the light. It is the "few" who follow the "narrow" path to "life", it is the "many" who travel the wide path to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). You say peace, peace, all is well. Well not all is well, and things are going to get worse, and then what will you say. It is Yeshua's message that the "wicked" ("those who commit lawlessness")(Mt 13:39-50) who will be gathered and thrown into the "furnace of fire", and not what you call "hell". For "hell"/Sheol is the grave, and "everybody dies for their own iniquities" (Jer 31:30), and therefore everyone goes to the grave. The "furnace of fire" is the coming "great tribulation" which comes "immediately before the coming of the son of man" (Matthew 24:29-30). Your leader, the false prophet Paul says you are saved, and "we shall not all sleep/die", which is a false prophecy, for all "everyone" shall "die". You have drunk from the cup of Paul's Kool Aide and must keep the faith with regard to his false message or presumably die. That is a catch 22 moment, whereas you are stuck in a false dichotomy. This was Yeshua's message. Are you saying Yeshua was "hateful", or just giving you a chance to repent and live (Ez 18:32)? I think the "abomination of desolation" (Mt 24:15), the abomination which makes desolation, now is hidden underground in Israel, and the "great tribulation" is on the way. One can flee to the mountains (Mt 24:16) (Joel 2:31-32) or turn back to prepare and get your coat and be swept away (Mt 24:17). One either heeds the message of the son of man (Mt 7:24-27) or "falls".

New American Standard Bible Ez 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live!”

 

[Windwalker]

Those of the dark are attracted to the dark.

Exactly. This why your posts are always full of darkness and spitting vitriol. It is attractive to you. Not to me. Not to others.

 

[YoursTrue]

The difference is explicit, in that the "message (tare seed) of the enemy" is related to the "tares" (Mt 13:41) in that the "tares" will "commit lawlessness", as in the message of the "enemy", is the false gospel of grace, whereas the "law" has been nailed to a cross, whereupon lawlessness prevails.

Sorry, but I'm not understanding you.

 

[YoursTrue]

The difference is explicit, in that the "message (tare seed) of the enemy" is related to the "tares" (Mt 13:41) in that the "tares" will "commit lawlessness", as in the message of the "enemy", is the false gospel of grace, whereas the "law" has been nailed to a cross, whereupon lawlessness prevails.

Anyway, the question comes in as to what is lawlessness.

 

[Jimmy]

I'm a Christian. Or am I? Bwahahaha!

 

[3rdAngel]

That verse only (falsely) claims that disbelief is a sin. It does not say or imply anything about the Bible.

Sure it does you just do not believe it. Romans 14:23 says ... whatsoever is not of faith in sin. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God while 2 Timothy 3:15-16 says that the scriptures are the inspired Word of God. Therefore unbelief in Gods Word is sin according to the scriptures.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: From the scripture in the post you are quoting from. Romans 14:23... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Faith means to believe and obey Gods Word. Unbelief is not believing and not obeying what Gods Word (the scriptures) say. The scripture does not say "if you do things half heartedly and doubt that you should do them at all, perhaps you should not do them." It says whatsoever is not of faith is sin. We should not try reading things into the scriptures that are not written in them.

Your response...

Does it? I do not think that anything in the Bible says that you have to believe all of it literally. In fact there are verses that seem to counter that claim.

Sure it does (see my last post to you). Unbelief is sin. Those who practice known unrepentant sin do not enter into Gods kingdom according to the scriptures (see John 3:36; Hebrews 10:26-31).

Take Care

 

[Brickjectivity]

Which parts do you consider true? Please be specific.

The prophets are poetry, but what they do is search for meaning in the law. They view the law mystically, like it is a map or microcosm of the world. This is because it is a system for living in the world. As a map of the world it should hold secrets. The prophets, then, view the law similarly to the way that ancient astronomers try to read the stars. The prophets, however, have much better luck since the law actually does represent a workable and intimate living system while the stars are just random objects in the sky.

The bible is written to lawyers. The law is the center, but the center of that is the covenant between people, which we ignorantly call 'The LORD'. (my opinion) I view the LORD as I view scripture or as I view the holy spirit, an emanation of the divine but not the divine itself. Its like a piece of a hologram, containing the entire picture that the hologram does but not the actual thing and not the most detail. Still, you can examine a piece of a hologram with a magnifying glass to get some more detail. Thus it makes sense to examine the ways of the LORD very closely. Everything in the bible that has to do with fellowship and avoiding violence is meant to be taken very seriously and is about the ways of the LORD. Everything else is dealing with these things, tangent to them, celebrating them, interpreting them, finding out about them. As some have stated the greatest two commands are to love the covenant and to love your neighbor. This sums up the law and the prophets.

What is not true: superstitions such as the belief that putting ink onto goats will make them bear spotted young. This does not work, ever; nor would anyone in any age believe that it would. The unbelievable and obviously wrong passage is included on purpose to let you know something: that the story is not the point.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm a Christian. Or am I? Bwahahaha!

Why would you wonder?

 

[YoursTrue]

The prophets are poetry, but what they do is search for meaning in the law. They view the law mystically, like it is a map or microcosm of the world. This is because it is a system for living in the world. As a map of the world it should hold secrets. The prophets, then, view the law similarly to the way that ancient astronomers try to read the stars. The prophets, however, have much better luck since the law actually does represent a workable and intimate living system while the stars are just random objects in the sky.

The bible is written to lawyers. The law is the center, but the center of that is the covenant between people, which we ignorantly call 'The LORD'. (my opinion) I view the LORD as I view scripture or as I view the holy spirit, an emanation of the divine but not the divine itself. Its like a piece of a hologram, containing the entire picture that the hologram does but not the actual thing and not the most detail. Still, you can examine a piece of a hologram with a magnifying glass to get some more detail. Thus it makes sense to examine the ways of the LORD very closely. Everything in the bible that has to do with fellowship and avoiding violence is meant to be taken very seriously and is about the ways of the LORD. Everything else is dealing with these things, tangent to them, celebrating them, interpreting them, finding out about them. As some have stated the greatest two commands are to love the covenant and to love your neighbor. This sums up the law and the prophets.

What is not true: superstitions such as the belief that putting ink onto goats will make them bear spotted young. This does not work, ever; nor would anyone in any age believe that it would. The unbelievable and obviously wrong passage is included on purpose to let you know something: that the story is not the point.

Ok whatever...

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm thinking that doesn't have anything to do with your stating that being a Christian means you have to study the Bible. What I think Jesus meant by that is that spiritual fulfillment comes from God.

You can say that but if you don't know what Jesus said or did how can you follow him?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Ok whatever...

Sorry I should have said what you were itching to hear. Sorry about that.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sorry I should have said what you were itching to hear. Sorry about that.

Not at all. Your post was long and not easy to follow. You think the prophets were poetry. We can talk about that...since you said it, were they making things up? Like poetic things, you think? Also, which prophets are you speaking about that wrote poetry?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I consider Christ to be, first and foremost, a great moral teacher.

What's your favorite moral precept original to Jesus, his most important contribution to moral theory in your estimation? Love one another is all well and good, but not original with Jesus. How about considering marrying a divorcee or finding somebody sexually attractive adultery? How about, "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it." Be a eunuch might be original, but is it really a valuable contribution to moral theory?

If we all lived or tried to live according to the revolutionary principles expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, the world would be a far better place than it currently is.

If they followed those rules, people would be more manageable anyway, which I believe was the point. I see slave ethics there. Why do you suppose that Constantine made Christianity his state religion. I'm guessing Matthew 5. Those are words you tell somebody whom you intend to exploit but whom want to passively absorb it rather than rise up. Be meek, Be longsuffering. Love enemies. Turn the other cheek. Accept your present situation, for there will be a great reward after death if you do, a mansion of many rooms waiting for you where you will be an equal - unless you resist your enemies. That used to be called pie in the sky for obvious reasons.

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." - Napoleon Bonaparte

I expect that you see both of those opinions negatively, but if you think they're wrong, please explain where and how, that is, falsify them if you can.

 

[Windwalker]

You can say that but if you don't know what Jesus said or did how can you follow him?

"how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?.....​

​

But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth,​

And their words unto the ends of the world.​

As you can see here, Paul was clearly teaching that they understood without the need for preachers or Bibles. What if they are illiterate and can't read? Too bad for them? Off to hell with you because you can't read the Bible! You can't believe that, do you?