Can a human be more compassionate and merciful than God (in your opinion)

[interminable]

The doctrine of eternal conscious torture is probably the most morally repugnant idea to come out of the revealed religions.


I think I've read before that the Qur'an has some grammatical irregularities but that Arabic eventually conformed to these irregularities so that the Qur'an's use of Arabic grammar became the standard for Arabic grammar. If this is true, then it makes the claim for the Qur'an's perfect grammar much less impressive.

If

 

[interminable]

I have debated with Muslims on this site for years and have not been presented with anything convincing, quite the opposite in fact. When I tell them their "evidence" or logic is unconvincing it is because it is unconvincing. You need something beyond claims from the Koran and it's believers to convince me. However, unsupported claims is all you have.

U mean u want more than causality and infinite regress to prove the existence of God for example????

 

[james bond]

So it's okay for God to punish the innocent descendants of people who did something wrong, but when we do it it's somehow morally wrong?

Wrong again. The descendants were not innocent. Look at what happened. A&E disobeyed so what they had disappeared. They had heaven on earth in the Garden. The start of death, their off-spring not being perfect (Cain killed his brother), being banished from the Garden of Eden, their off-spring not being perfect as generations begat other generations, problems from incestuous relationship off-spring, etc. For example, ancient people had perfect teeth, were in better health and probably were stronger and faster than humans today. They lived to over 900 years. Today, everyone who is born end up with crooked teeth and best we can live to is around 120. The evidence is we still admire perfection and strive for it. We seek longevity and admire people who have lived past the century mark.

Again, you're missing the negative litmus test they had. Plenty of evidence for it. Look at Apple's logo. I worked there. The joke is their Satan's company. Today, we have the positive one. That said, you know there are people who will not follow which is okay. That's free will. Maybe you can see why A&E didn't obey and failed their test. One just has to pay the price during final judgment by Jesus. There won't be any atheists in the afterlife. That's made clear. It's in the Bible or Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If someone kill 200000 people in one second u will let him to be free and scoff the others huh???

Thank u . We don't want your compassionate behavior towards criminals

But had society stepped in when the red flags were being displayed, it might have been prevented in the first place.

 

[Spiderman]

I answered u before about these verses and I showed u some verses completely different from these verses. But since u aren't after the truth I no longer think u should be answered.

Yes you showed me how the Koran contradicts itself, containing verses that say the opposite of what other verses say.

I'm after the truth. That's why I don't follow Islam.

 

[Spiderman]

If someone kill 200000 people in one second u will let him to be free and scoff the others huh???


Thank u . We don't want your compassionate behavior towards criminals

People that kill other people are miserable. I would want them healed and transformed or put out of their misery rather than be miserable forever.

 

[Spiderman]

I have debated with Muslims on this site for years and have not been presented with anything convincing, quite the opposite in fact.

extremely so

 

[interminable]

Yes you showed me how the Koran contradicts itself, containing verses that say the opposite of what other verses say.

I'm after the truth. That's why I don't follow Islam.

آل عمران
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (7)

 

[interminable]

People that kill other people are miserable. I would want them healed and transformed or put out of their misery rather than be miserable forever.

This is because u know nothing about human being and his goal in this life.

If every human being is supposed to gain eternal salvation and this salvation gradually will be obtained and for example it needs more than 20 years to be reached and after 10 years someone comes and kills that person what should be his punishment????

 

[Spiderman]

آل عمران
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (7)

In other words, Nobody Knows the correct interpretation of the Koran. Islam is a Religion of confusion.

 

[interminable]

In in other words, Nobody Knows the correct interpretation of the Koran. Islam is a Religion of confusion.

Those who are expert and pious know

 

[Spiderman]

This is because u know nothing about human being and his goal in this life.

If every human being is supposed to gain eternal salvation and this salvation gradually will be obtained and for example it needs more than 20 years to be reached and after 10 years someone comes and kills that person what should be his punishment????

His punishment should fit the crime. A lot of people who kill others are very tortured people themselves. The time should fit the crime. They don't deserve to be tortured forever no matter what their crime is.

 

[Spiderman]

Those who are expert and pious know

Experts likely come up with opposite opinions because the Koran often says the opposite of what it previously said

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Now you are evaluating God based on you opinion's. Your human understanding of morals. You indicate God doesn't attempt to warn us, how can you be sure. You do feel pain. You do get insights.

However, even if God built pain into our systems with this purpose of producing "warning", it is a system on auto-pilot. He doesn't have to be present, nor issue the warning Himself.

And of course I evaluate God based on my human understanding - and He would know that I do, and that I can't be expected to do otherwise. When we decide to follow or not follow) a particular political leader, when we vote for our chosen representatives for our kind, do we not make judgments based on our knowledge and experience at the time? Do we look at them and say: "well, they need to be afforded some aberrant, or odd behavior because they exist within a higher-order political sphere than the rest of us". No... not at all. If a candidate is a weirdo and can't control themselves, you don't follow. It is really that simple.

To answer your questions yes I allow my kids to do dangerous things without my input. It does frustrate me at times but I can not be there with them always. They must learn to take care of themselves and learn from their mistakes. That is me being a good father. I must trust in them or they will never trust themselves.

Note, however, that I said I would be there when my kids NEEDED me. Not when they're playing on the playground and I take note that they are about to attempt the monkey bars again - having failed to make it across the last 5 times they tried. I'm talking about the times they are in real trouble, when there will be real consequences and things are likely not going to go "to plan".

I know a woman, personally, who is a lesbian. Not a practicing lesbian, mind you - but nonetheless, she does not find men sexually or romantically attractive in the least. She is a Christian, and in order to commit herself to that end, she has sworn off ever having fulfillment of her romantic and sexual desires. Do you think she hasn't explicitly ASKED for help? Asked God to be there? To somehow let her have that sort of relationship in her life? To assume she must not have, or just "isn't doing it right" is ludicrous, arrogant and inanely short-sighted. She has devoted her life, and is sacrificing something I believe any of us can understand the true weight of. She's basically made herself a nun, by choice and will. She is genuinely one of the nicest and warmest people I have ever met, and she is beautiful both mentally and physically. That she is lost to the world of romance is nearly a tragedy - she won't experience being made happy nor making someone happy in that way. God fails her daily, in my opinion.

We do not know what the rules to creation are. God did not go and get a female God pregnant and out popped humans. How can you decide what God should do. Why do you believe God is our father. I believe God created us to be equals.

It is so obvious that I do not get to "decide what God should do". But I do get to have my own reactions-to and ideas about what I see God do - or, rather, not do (being honest, I don't believe He really does anything at all, or can't because He doesn't exist) when I am told He is supposedly capable. As a father, if my small child were to be found drowned in a lake - would the question not be put to me as to HOW he/she ended up there, alone, without supervision? The (correct) assumption being that I could have prevented tragedy had I only been there to intercede. You sit there and probably believe God is interceding all the time - doing things to reward or punish people from the sidelines based on their behavior. I would like you to think of how you'd feel if you were to find out the government (or hell, ALIENS for that matter) were secretly making your life easier or more difficult based on some criteria they had set forth for you. You would never know it was them, but you could be sure that sometimes obstacles in your way were put there by this external association, who were making your life harder because they were judging something you did harshly. Wouldn't that be just great? Wouldn't that make you just want to bow down and worship this invisible hand that was doing all these things from the shadows? If not, why not?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It's in the Bible or Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

I'm sorry... this is just so so cheap. It's almost painful - like when you're witnessing someone go through something you know must be extremely embarrassing, and you ache to get them out of it. You should never write that again... I'm honestly only trying to help.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Can a Human Be More Compassionate and merciful than God in Your Opinion?

We cannot compare the compassion and mercy of God with that of a human if you read Isaiah 46:5.

 

[bobhikes]

However, even if God built pain into our systems with this purpose of producing "warning", it is a system on auto-pilot. He doesn't have to be present, nor issue the warning Himself.

And of course I evaluate God based on my human understanding - and He would know that I do, and that I can't be expected to do otherwise. When we decide to follow or not follow) a particular political leader, when we vote for our chosen representatives for our kind, do we not make judgments based on our knowledge and experience at the time? Do we look at them and say: "well, they need to be afforded some aberrant, or odd behavior because they exist within a higher-order political sphere than the rest of us". No... not at all. If a candidate is a weirdo and can't control themselves, you don't follow. It is really that simple.

Note, however, that I said I would be there when my kids NEEDED me. Not when they're playing on the playground and I take note that they are about to attempt the monkey bars again - having failed to make it across the last 5 times they tried. I'm talking about the times they are in real trouble, when there will be real consequences and things are likely not going to go "to plan".

I know a woman, personally, who is a lesbian. Not a practicing lesbian, mind you - but nonetheless, she does not find men sexually or romantically attractive in the least. She is a Christian, and in order to commit herself to that end, she has sworn off ever having fulfillment of her romantic and sexual desires. Do you think she hasn't explicitly ASKED for help? Asked God to be there? To somehow let her have that sort of relationship in her life? To assume she must not have, or just "isn't doing it right" is ludicrous, arrogant and inanely short-sighted. She has devoted her life, and is sacrificing something I believe any of us can understand the true weight of. She's basically made herself a nun, by choice and will. She is genuinely one of the nicest and warmest people I have ever met, and she is beautiful both mentally and physically. That she is lost to the world of romance is nearly a tragedy - she won't experience being made happy nor making someone happy in that way. God fails her daily, in my opinion.



It is so obvious that I do not get to "decide what God should do". But I do get to have my own reactions-to and ideas about what I see God do - or, rather, not do (being honest, I don't believe He really does anything at all, or can't because He doesn't exist) when I am told He is supposedly capable. As a father, if my small child were to be found drowned in a lake - would the question not be put to me as to HOW he/she ended up there, alone, without supervision? The (correct) assumption being that I could have prevented tragedy had I only been there to intercede. You sit there and probably believe God is interceding all the time - doing things to reward or punish people from the sidelines based on their behavior. I would like you to think of how you'd feel if you were to find out the government (or hell, ALIENS for that matter) were secretly making your life easier or more difficult based on some criteria they had set forth for you. You would never know it was them, but you could be sure that sometimes obstacles in your way were put there by this external association, who were making your life harder because they were judging something you did harshly. Wouldn't that be just great? Wouldn't that make you just want to bow down and worship this invisible hand that was doing all these things from the shadows? If not, why not?

Humans are vain creatures they believe they know everything and everything is for them. The world the universe God were created for them. I will tell you this you are only a small part of creation. Your religions are man made. God is above such trivalities.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Humans are vain creatures they believe they know everything and everything is for them. The world the universe God were created for them. I will tell you this you are only a small part of creation. Your religions are man made. God is above such trivalities.

More assumptions. In no way do I believe, act like, or perceive that either the universe or the world were made for me. I don't even believe that the world was made for mankind. At all. And I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that, as far as the universe goes, I barely even exist. I am a sliver of a sliver of a particle of dust. Did you not notice my user handle? "A Vestigial Mote" - a "mote" being the least most particle, dust, debris, or something equally insignificant. And "vestigial" meaning part of something that no longer even exists. So yeah... I would have to say I am pretty aware how small I am. And vanity? It has absolutely nothing to do with my disbelief in God, nor does it have any place among my ideals. To be honest, there isn't much more vain that I can think of than to believe that an all-powerful being cared enough to create you for some specific purpose - when all evidence you can possibly get your hands on points in a different direction entirely. THAT'S vanity.

 

[bobhikes]

More assumptions. In no way do I believe, act like, or perceive that either the universe or the world were made for me. I don't even believe that the world was made for mankind. At all. And I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that, as far as the universe goes, I barely even exist. I am a sliver of a sliver of a particle of dust. Did you not notice my user handle? "A Vestigial Mote" - a "mote" being the least most particle, dust, debris, or something equally insignificant. And "vestigial" meaning part of something that no longer even exists. So yeah... I would have to say I am pretty aware how small I am. And vanity? It has absolutely nothing to do with my disbelief in God, nor does it have any place among my ideals. To be honest, there isn't much more vain that I can think of than to believe that an all-powerful being cared enough to create you for some specific purpose - when all evidence you can possibly get your hands on points in a different direction entirely. THAT'S vanity.

So what's your problem with How I would be if I were God.

You say you make no assumptions, you say you understand you are a mote, you say you have no vanity, you say god has no purpose for us. If you believe that why do you believe that a human could be better in any way then a God. This is what I am missing why in your humble view of life do you believe a Human could be even slightly better than God. I could understand if you said there was no God. But you specifically assign human traits to god or religious views to god and say humans are better.

 

[Nietzsche]

Wrong again. The descendants were not innocent. Look at what happened. A&E disobeyed so what they had disappeared. They had heaven on earth in the Garden. The start of death, their off-spring not being perfect (Cain killed his brother), being banished from the Garden of Eden, their off-spring not being perfect as generations begat other generations, problems from incestuous relationship off-spring, etc. For example, ancient people had perfect teeth, were in better health and probably were stronger and faster than humans today. They lived to over 900 years. Today, everyone who is born end up with crooked teeth and best we can live to is around 120. The evidence is we still admire perfection and strive for it. We seek longevity and admire people who have lived past the century mark.

You have any proof of this supposed perfection? Because we've got corpses from the era. They're not in better health than we are. None the less, my point is that the offspring of A&E were not responsible. They should not have been punished. Guilt is not transferable by blood, no matter what some power-hungry dick with authority says.

Again, you're missing the negative litmus test they had. Plenty of evidence for it. Look at Apple's logo. I worked there. The joke is their Satan's company.

Err, no. That's a reference to Alan Turing.

Today, we have the positive one. That said, you know there are people who will not follow which is okay. That's free will. Maybe you can see why A&E didn't obey and failed their test. One just has to pay the price during final judgment by Jesus. There won't be any atheists in the afterlife. That's made clear. It's in the Bible or Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.

That's all well and good, but irrelevant to my point.