Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

[CG Didymus]

Good point.

And I wonder where all that water went afterwards...

No, seriously? You don't know? I heard one Christian talk show guy say that the mountains were smaller, so the water didn't have to go that high. The canopy of water above the Earth burst, the water in the Earth gushed up, and the never before known phenomenon called rain, started falling from I guess the previously unknown thing called clouds. Now after the flood, then he says the continents drifted, some land sank, some land rose and all the water drained off and filled the depressions making the oceans. Hmm? I wonder how big the oceans were before the flood? Were they fresh or salt water? Oh well, it doesn't matter. Are the details really that important? What's important is to believe it's all true and find a way to force what has been revealed to us into sounding as if it is really true.

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm still scared. Thank God he promised never to kill us that way again. But since I don't know what he's planning next, I'm getting me an iron chariot.

But wait, what kind of chariots did the Egyptians have? They must have had some iron, don't you think? And, he drowned them! Forget it. I'm supplementing my iron chariot with a tinfoil hat. You can never be too careful.

Double safety can never hurt.

 

[Thief]

Wasn't left out.
Man was made on Day Six.
The garden event happened AFTER Day Seven.

Think separate incidents.
Man as a species Day Six.
Garden event as a manipulation.
Adam as a chosen son of God.

 

[dantech]

These questions always seem flawed to me. How can you ask a question which includes a God capable of creating a universe, yet is limited to the laws of nature such as plants being created, without the Sun?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

These questions always seem flawed to me. How can you ask a question which includes a God capable of creating a universe, yet is limited to the laws of nature such as plants being created, without the Sun?

I think it's a logic problem. If you can make plants without the Sun, why have them later be reliant on it?

 

[Ouroboros]

I think it's a logic problem. If you can make plants without the Sun, why have them later be reliant on it?

True.

It would mean the no-sun plants wouldn't require phtosynthesis, while the others would (normal plants). It would suggest the plants evolved to different species.

 

[dantech]

I think it's a logic problem. If you can make plants without the Sun, why have them later be reliant on it?

Well that's a whole different question, and I haven't read all the other pages, but I'm pretty sure it has been said that even though the sun was not created, there was still light. Now ask me, why would God create a sunless light rather then just create the sun? Also, why create the world in 6 days? Why not just "snap his fingers" and voila?

 

[Ouroboros]

Well that's a whole different question, and I haven't read all the other pages, but I'm pretty sure it has been said that even though the sun was not created, there was still light. Now ask me, why would God create a sunless light rather then just create the sun? Also, why create the world in 6 days? Why not just "snap his fingers" and voila?

And at which spot on the planet was it turning night and day? Was everything created from one specific time zone?

 

[dantech]

And at which spot on the planet was it turning night and day? Was everything created from one specific time zone?

Well assuming the light came from God, and not from the sun, then it wasn't pointing on any spot. It was probably covering all of the earth. And even if it was only pointing on one timezone at a time, are you telling me the plants could not survive without photosynthesis for 12 hours?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well assuming the light came from God, and not from the sun, then it wasn't pointing on any spot. It was probably covering all of the earth. And even if it was only pointing on one timezone at a time, are you telling me the plants could not survive without photosynthesis for 12 hours?

They certainly could, of course there are those who argue that it wasn't one day but it was eons or whatever, which makes the survive without photosynthesis for 12 hours.

But again, going by what we know about Plants, it would make more sense for the Sun to be produced first than the Plants.

The light before the Sun part, the thing is that the light seemed to have been a creation of God as the verse says "let there be light and God saw the light and that it was good" and "God separated the light from the darkness and called the light day and the darkness night"

So this first light would have been the source for plants...but verse 14...is where it gets weird, cause now the lights are beign created in the sky.

 

[dantech]

They certainly could, of course there are those who argue that it wasn't one day but it was eons or whatever, which makes the survive without photosynthesis for 12 hours.

But again, going by what we know about Plants, it would make more sense for the Sun to be produced first than the Plants.

The light before the Sun part, the thing is that the light seemed to have been a creation of God as the verse says "let there be light and God saw the light and that it was good" and "God separated the light from the darkness and called the light day and the darkness night"

So this first light would have been the source for plants...but verse 14...is where it gets weird, cause now the lights are beign created in the sky.

It's just that all the questions don't make much sense, to me at least. How can God, capable of creating a complete universe along with the first animal, floral and human life, do these things without submitting to the laws of physics as we know them today? How did he create the first man out of dirt?

Maybe while his Sun was cooking in the oven to be ready for implementation, he used a flashlight... waaaiiiiitttttttt a minute!!!!!! There were no flash lights, were there? No. There couldn't be. Thomas Edison was not even born yet.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well assuming the light came from God, and not from the sun, then it wasn't pointing on any spot. It was probably covering all of the earth. And even if it was only pointing on one timezone at a time, are you telling me the plants could not survive without photosynthesis for 12 hours?

It's just weird that God created the Universe based on "day and night" on one single planet without a sun.

We know that day and night is a term relating to the rotation of Earth and having light on one side of Earth at any given time, making the other side night. So the good light that was created the first day was not all encompassing or covering the whole Earth since there was a night that came.

 

[Ouroboros]

It's just that all the questions don't make much sense, to me at least. How can God, capable of creating a complete universe along with the first animal, floral and human life, do these things without submitting to the laws of physics as we know them today? How did he create the first man out of dirt?

Maybe while his Sun was cooking in the oven to be ready for implementation, he used a flashlight... waaaiiiiitttttttt a minute!!!!!! There were no flash lights, were there? No. There couldn't be. Thomas Edison was not even born yet.

So day and night was created by God turning on and off the flashlight? Click-click, now it's night. Click-click, and now it's day.

I think it fits well with the shrink rays and the other wonderful miracle toys God solved problems in the past.

Problem is... it doesn't literally say flashlight that he turned on or off. So is the creation story literal? Don't think so. Seems like we have to fudge the story to tell "this is how it really happened."

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

It's just that all the questions don't make much sense, to me at least. How can God, capable of creating a complete universe along with the first animal, floral and human life, do these things without submitting to the laws of physics as we know them today? How did he create the first man out of dirt?

Maybe while his Sun was cooking in the oven to be ready for implementation, he used a flashlight... waaaiiiiitttttttt a minute!!!!!! There were no flash lights, were there? No. There couldn't be. Thomas Edison was not even born yet.

Well given what we know now, it doesn't work. But given how people back then thought, well then it would work.

I can't read hebrew so I'm not sure how the original translation works, but uses of words like vault, the hanging of the lights, the later creation of the stars, it seems to fit well with the way the ancients thought the world operated.

 

[dantech]

So day and night was created by God turning on and off the flashlight? Click-click, now it's night. Click-click, and now it's day.

I think it fits well with the shrink rays and the other wonderful miracle toys God solved problems in the past.

Problem is... it doesn't literally say flashlight that he turned on or off. So is the creation story literal? Don't think so. Seems like we have to fudge the story to tell "this is how it really happened."

I think it is possible for it to be literal, just not complete. Maybe everything that is written happened exactly as it is written, but it doesn't mean that there aren't many more details, some that we probably could not even understand, that are not written. That's what you need to keep in mind when discussing with someone who believes in the literal account.

 

[dantech]

Well given what we know now, it doesn't work. But given how people back then thought, well then it would work.

I can't read hebrew so I'm not sure how the original translation works, but uses of words like vault, the hanging of the lights, the later creation of the stars, it seems to fit well with the way the ancients thought the world operated.

Well the word they translate to Vaults is "Rak'ia". This word is more than just vague to say the least...
Here, read this if you have the time and you will understand just how not as simple as "Vaults" it is to translate this word.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well the word they translate to Vaults is "Rak'ia". This word is more than just vague to say the least...
Here, read this if you have the time and you will understand just how not as simple as "Vaults" it is to translate this word.

So doesn't that fit with the understanding that man once had? I mean I can certainly see some lessons gleam from these stories...Genesis 1 seems to be one of those moments.

 

[Ouroboros]

I think it is possible for it to be literal, just not complete. Maybe everything that is written happened exactly as it is written, but it doesn't mean that there aren't many more details, some that we probably could not even understand, that are not written. That's what you need to keep in mind when discussing with someone who believes in the literal account.

I disagree. If words like "night" and "day" aren't literally meant, it has to be read as prose. It's not a scientific story.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The one in the picture isn't God Father but Jesus the son.

You know... mama God and papa God on a warm and starry night...

I'd put eve's belly button in from the same frescoes but...well...it's a bit graphic. But there is a belly button there.

 

[Thief]

So there's confusion which item was made first?

Do you think it matters?

Let's try to envision God's effort to speak to an eighty year old man....
who climbed a mountain to meet his Maker.
This would be a good opportunity for some one on one.

And Moses might ask a few intelligent questions.
Like what is Man that God is mindful of him?
How was Man made and what is the nature of flesh?
So forth and so on.

And if you can.....yes you can....
Imagine the answers you would render unto Moses....if you were....God.
bear in mind....Moses will go tell everyone else to the best of his ability.

Such would be the scripture....written by Moses.

And let's not overlook how Moses would feel about it.
Especially when he gets to the part about the ten commandments.
Picture Moses playing scribe as God is looking over his shoulder.

In particular the one item as Moses is told to write it down....thou shalt not kill.

I believe Moses went up the mountain to meet his Maker.....and die.
What followed was not what Moses had in mind.
And Genesis is written as best that Moses could do.
As well as God could speak to an eighty year old shepherd.