• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

Ouroboros

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Hawkins said:
The Bible is meant to be a scientific book. The problem on the other hand is that, how human scientists calculate the age of earth if this is the case.
Click to expand...
The science is extremely well established when it comes to how to date Earth. There's not a problem in how to do it. The problem is that people still can't resolve a religious story with reality. The Bible is and was not meant to be a scientific book. It was meant to be a religious and spiritual book for guidance of meaning and social construction, not for researching naturalism.
 
james2ko

james2ko

Well-Known Member
CG Didymus said:
Hey James2ko, I often hear young Earthers say that Noah only had to take "kinds" of animals. So that a wolf would be enough to repopulate the planet with all dog-like animals. But, from that verse you quoted, "everything in them," the intent sounds like all animals were created and didn't "micro-evolve."
Click to expand...

According to its definition and usage throughout scripture, the Hebrew term for "all" [kol] (also translated "everything") can imply "all sorts or types" of a particular thing. From this it is plausible to conclude whatever species He first created has interbred with their own "kind" to produce the variety we see today (micro-evolution).

Otherwise, in the beginning we'd have wolves that gave rise to coyotes, foxes and dogs etc. And then, after the flood, they would have to do this all over again? Or, in the beginning, there were all the different dog-like animals, but then Noah only took a representative from the "kind," let's say a pair of wolves, and from them came all other dog-like animals?
Click to expand...

Yes. I believe this was the case.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
IT amazes me in this modern age, with all that is known with certainty, that mythology is even debated as having any part in reality.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The flood narrative roughly parallels the Babylonian one that was written roughly 2000 prior. What has convinced the archaeologists of such is that it's fairly obvious that we took that narrative and altered it so as to reflect our morals and values. So many of the ideas and even words come from these ancient texts. In eretz Israel, we would have been exposed to that narrative because of the tremendous influence of the powerful Babylonian culture, and cultures all over the world take ideas from others and alter them as part of their teachings.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
metis said:
The flood narrative roughly parallels the Babylonian one that was written roughly 2000 prior. What has convinced the archaeologists of such is that it's fairly obvious that we took that narrative and altered it so as to reflect our morals and values. So many of the ideas and even words come from these ancient texts. In eretz Israel, we would have been exposed to that narrative because of the tremendous influence of the powerful Babylonian culture, and cultures all over the world take ideas from others and alter them as part of their teachings.
Click to expand...


2000 years prior would be the Sumerian version, which the Babylonians used, which in later times the Canaanites seni used, which were handed down to the Israelites.

I still invision these flood legends as entertainment around a campfire to teach morals while keeping the children wide eyed. I see them used mlti cultutally where they were common knolwdge in all the levant
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
outhouse said:
2000 years prior would be the Sumerian version, which the Babylonians used, which in later times the Canaanites seni used, which were handed down to the Israelites.

I still invision these flood legends as entertainment around a campfire to teach morals while keeping the children wide eyed. I see them used mlti cultutally where they were common knolwdge in all the levant
Click to expand...

I think that's a good way of looking at it. In my anthropology course, I would show some pictures of a Baka ("Pygmies", which is a derogatory name for them, btw), sitting around a fire telling stories, and getting the children involved. And, depending on the time and audience, sometimes the stories would be tweeked a bit.

Wanna see an example of it done here by chance? Google "Santa Claus" and see how that narrative changed over a few centuries, including significant changes in how "Santa" even looks.
 
Last edited:
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Hawkins said:
Yes, that can be the case if it's more convenient for planet earth to be created that way. You don't randomly make explosions inside a garage in the hope that a car will be formed this way. You "create" it else where then bring it to your garage, as it is a more efficient way.

He doesn't need to make a big bang then spot for a suitable place to grow humans. He can trigger a big bang to make a universe then put earth and whatever necessary to their corresponding positions. He doesn't need to explain this is done to Moses or anyone as ancient humans didn't understand science. He just need to briefly describe what happened in the Bible as a witness/record that earth and everything on it is created.

The Bible is meant to be a scientific book. The problem on the other hand is that, how human scientists calculate the age of earth if this is the case.
Click to expand...

The conflict is even more so than you say.
For years I've been posting what I consider obvious.
Chapter Two of Genesis is a story of manipulation.
The garden event is a science experiment in every aspect.
It's not a metaphor.
Something happened to alter the body and direction of Man.
The details when told (around the campfire) were hardly believable then.
(take a rib from a man while he sleeps!....and not kill him!)

But science now makes it believable.
We now have the lab work to show we humans can be manipulated.
(Eve is a clone.....had no navel)

As for sorting through the fragments of the big bang and finding a suitable 'garden'...
plenty of fragments to choose from.
 
F

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
The conflict is even more so than you say.
For years I've been posting what I consider obvious.
Chapter Two of Genesis is a story of manipulation.
The garden event is a science experiment in every aspect.
It's not a metaphor.
Something happened to alter the body and direction of Man.
The details when told (around the campfire) were hardly believable then.
(take a rib from a man while he sleeps!....and not kill him!)

But science now makes it believable.
We now have the lab work to show we humans can be manipulated.
(Eve is a clone.....had no navel)

As for sorting through the fragments of the big bang and finding a suitable 'garden'...
plenty of fragments to choose from.
Click to expand...

Lol the best part is that it's likely that it was not a rib that was taken...oops.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Thief said:
Well if you don't want to believe humans changed course for cause of manipulation.....
ok for you.
Click to expand...

How come all the animals got opposite genders in Genesis including humans but adam got left out? Adam already had females to choose from and had a navel just like his eve clone. The answer is evolution.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
idav said:
How come all the animals got opposite genders in Genesis including humans but adam got left out? Adam already had females to choose from and had a navel just like his eve clone. The answer is evolution.
Click to expand...

Wasn't left out.
Man was made on Day Six.
The garden event happened AFTER Day Seven.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top