Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

God would have had to teach Moses how to read Sumerian cuneiform (and he would have had to tell Moses where to dig for them, seeing as how Sumer was already 500 years gone).

It's more reasonable to say that Moses compiled Genesis and wrote the other four.

It's god the same god who had the disciples speak in tongues. Not impossible to put that knowledge in moses head.

 

[Clarity]

It's god the same god who had the disciples speak in tongues. Not impossible to put that knowledge in moses head.

Sorry, not going for it.

You're asking me to use tradition to trump common sense and evidence.

Genesis 1-11 contains Sumerian literature and is similar in writing style and form and uses Sumerian idioms.

Genesis 12-50 is nearly identical to the Egyptian biographies being written in the patriarchal period, such as the tale of Si Nuhe (dating to about 1800 BC).

Exodus through Deuteronomy contain indicators that they were written by someone educated in Thebes (such as the use of exact dating formatted in the same way found on Theban monuments).

The evidence suggests:
Genesis 1-11 was written 2800-2000 BC.
Genesis 12-50 was written 1800-1500 BC.
Exodus to Deut was written during the Egyptian middle kingdom (1600-1200).

(If you want to go further, the book of Judges contains the phrase, "at that time there was no judge in Israel, and every man did what was right in his own eyes." Judges is presumed to have been written 1200-1100 BC. The same phrase, almost word for word, was found in Egyptian documents dated to about 1100 BC. When you find literary similarities like this, you have an unavoidable conclusion: one culture influenced another in an intimate manner and that influence left a datable imprint on the Bible.)

 

[outhouse]

It's more reasonable to say that Moses compiled Genesis and wrote the other four.

:biglaugh:

Comical.

 

[sojourner]

Sorry, not going for it.

You're asking me to use tradition to trump common sense and evidence.

Funny... you're doing exactly that in another thread with the gospels...

 

[Muffled]

Why are there no breaks in any previous civilization during that exact time period in Egypt or Mesopotamia?

Ancient Egyptian Chronology: Dynasties

Lower Paleolithic (c. 2 Million - 100000 BC)
Middle Paleolithic (100000 - 30000 BC)
Upper Paleolithic (30000 - 10000 BC)
Epipaleolithic Era (10000 - c. 5500 BC)
Predynastic Period (5500 - 3100 BC)
1st Dynasty (2920 - 2770 BC)
2nd Dynasty (2770 - 2650 BC)
3rd Dynasty (2650 - 2575 BC)
4th Dynasty (2575 - 2467 BC)
5th Dynasty (2465 - 2323 BC)
6th Dynasty (2323 - 2152 BC)
First Intermediate Period (7th - 11th Dynasties) (2150 -1986 BC)
11th Dynasty (1986 - 1937 BC)
12th Dynasty (1937 - 1759 BC)
Second Intermediate Period (13th - 17th Dynasties) (1759 - 1539 BC)
18th Dynasty (1539 - 1295 BC)
19th Dynasty (1295 - 1186 BC)
20th Dynasty (1186 - 1069 BC)
21st Dynasty (1070 - 945 BC)
22nd Dynasty (945 - 712 BC)
23rd Dynasty (828 - 725 BC)
24th Dynasty (725 - 715 BC)
25th Dynasty (712 - 657 BC)
26th Dynasty (664 - 525 BC)
27th Dynasty (525 - 404 BC)
28th Dynasty (404 - 399 BC)
29th Dynasty (399 - 380 BC)
30th Dynasty (380 - 343 BC)
31st Dynasty (343 - 332 BC)
Ptolemaic Dynasty
Roman Period
Byzantine Period
Abbasid Period
Fatimid Period
Ayyubid Period
Mameluke Period
Bahri Mameluke Period
Burgi Mameluke Period
Ottoman Turk Period
French Occupation Period
British Occupation Period

Because it isn't a world wide flood but simply a Mesopotamian flood.

 

[Muffled]

Anywhere in the world, there is no break in any civilization?

You know why? Because it factually did not happen on the date you provided.


So now what? all of science and education and knoweldge is out to get you?


Is there some conspiracy out to get you?

I believe you have made a lot of statements but none of the factual.

 

[Muffled]

Really my friend it doesnt matter. Evolution is fact, and creation is not.

Evolution is an unproven theory (and can't be proven); creation is information from God who knows all things (scientists don't know all things).

 

[outhouse]

Because it isn't a world wide flood but simply a Mesopotamian flood.

The book states it covered the highest mountains and killed all life.


Love how you you personally interpret what you want when you want

 

[outhouse]

Evolution is an unproven theory (and can't be proven); creation is information from God who knows all things (scientists don't know all things).

Wrong.

Evolution is now fact.

reation is outlawed from children in science classes in public schools :biglaugh:

 

[outhouse]

I believe you have made a lot of statements but none of the factual.

What I stated stands, and it stands for all of humanity.

It is why you cannot refute it with credibility, and it is taught worldwide as higher education in every university around the WHOLE world.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Evolution is an unproven theory (and can't be proven); creation is information from God who knows all things (scientists don't know all things).

Then why have we found these...

But not this...

 

[Benoni]

Then why have we found these...

But not this...

Monkey Skulls

John Adams was a Christian

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Monkey Skulls

John Adams was a Christian

So was Darwin and Mendel....

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Monkey Skulls

John Adams was a Christian

I don't see how that is relevant to what we are talking about, but I assure you he was not. He was Deist/ Unitarian.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever exist."~ John Adams

 

[outhouse]

Monkey Skulls

Nonsense. :slap:


Anyone who denies evolution has ZERO credibility. :yes: Evolution is a fact.

 

[Ouroboros]

Monkey Skulls

1. We share ancestor with apes.
2. Those skulls belong to species who walked upright like us.
3. Those skulls belonged to individuals who made and used tools. Some of them even buried their dead.
4. Yet, the older ones have a very strict suborbital constriction and lack the language/speech center in their brain. Older=most like apes but having some human aspects like tools. Younger=more like humans but still having ape like behaviors
5. Oh, and then we have muscle attachments, dental arc, types of teeth, and many other aspects of the skull. Features that can be studied and read like a book of evolutionary progression.

Is that what you meant with "monkey"?

I had to study these things, how about you?

How about the zygomatic arc? See how it changes from the earlier skulls from a very ape like one to a more human like? These "monkeys" that walked on two legs... made axes... made spears... hunted... made clothes... discovered fire... discovered salt... yeah. We're just monkeys aren't we?

 

[greentwiga]

When people decide on one specific interpretation of the Bible and insist on it despite other reasonable Bible verses that they have to deny and despite science then you get this. They have to deny Archaeology, DNA, C14 dating, geology, etc. I taske the Bible literally, but see no conflict between it and Evolution. I wish other Christians would examine the Bible carefully for themselves instead of defending an interpretation developed hundreds of years ago, possibly to justify slavery rather than to be accurate.

 

[Ivan-Michael]

So many things don't add up in Genesis. Like the Sun and stars, not only were they created after the Earth, but created after plants? But then, I was wondering; Adam gets kicked out of Eden and has to till the soil? This is based on Gen 4:23 and 4:2 where Adam is sent out to "cultivate" the ground and his son Cain was a "tiller" of the ground. What did they till it with? Did God make them a plow and a hoe or something? And then Abel, why was he keeping flocks? Weren't they vegetarians? Was it for wool? Did God make Eve a loom and Abel some shears?

I see Genesis as religious poetry, but some Christians, and I guess some Jews, see it as literal. Ken Ham on his TV show Answers in Genesis, insists that it must be taken literal, that it is foundational, without it the whole of the Bible falls. What do you think.

Read the book literally, but not like they tell you, not from the fantasy as if it happened long time ago, simply because no one knows.
Those who cooked these books wrote it as they see the creation in us, our bodies and They masked it as if talking about the bigger version, the planet (as above so below).
They have created a system of information to manipulate and enslave our minds, our perception, our Elohim (God).
They claim the fruit of life, us, and the water of life, our energy, commerce, what we produce.
They have to keep us blind and deaf.
Genesis one is all about you, learn the concepts and you will see, otherwise you will remain blind to the fact.
In chapter 2 verse 4 YHVH, the lord that became your god by default (altered your thinking and decision making), turned 'creation' upside down, find it in the verse.
Adam and Eve were children and legally (like us), remained so forever.
Not just ignorant children (innocent), but ones who don't even know how to ask, a lower position.
The Torah (the whole bible in fact), is a legal book, it is also a book that belongs to a specific HOUSE.
Read Shakespeare all the world's a stage=Gen1
He doesn't explain day 1 for this is the alchemy between man and woman creating a baby, where HEAVEN is the Mother (like Isis, goddess of heaven), and Earth, in this scenario, the Man who fertilizes the woman in her watery cave, that is why only the earth was תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ
Coming and going, or, wondering and bewildered
There was darkness upon the deep' of the cave (female in Hebrew = cave, נְקֵבָ&#1492
'And there is a potential for a new Elohim to be created'
The spirit of Elohim hovering over the water.
Or אוֹר in Hebrew=light.
These 3 letters אוֹר (light) tell you: All (everything) spins and vibrates =light, illusion.
The Garden was never East of Eden (in John Steinbeck's stories maybe).
Read: the garden (your body) is under מִקֶּדֶם the EDEN and Eden means House of Judgement E (house) Din (Judgement).
Mikedem (Hebrew) means from before, not east, not in this case.
It is closer to the earth than the Eden which is the Head so it is before.
It is (our body, the person) an empty shell and Lord Gad (intentional) breathes 'life' into the Adam he created from the Adamah (the system).
It is all as if and make believe.
These books were not written for us to see and hear, but for others.
We were told to obey even if it doesn't make sense, after all, we are at war with everything, according to their world view.

 

[Thief]

1. We share ancestor with apes.
2. Those skulls belong to species who walked upright like us.
3. Those skulls belonged to individuals who made and used tools. Some of them even buried their dead.
4. Yet, the older ones have a very strict suborbital constriction and lack the language/speech center in their brain. Older=most like apes but having some human aspects like tools. Younger=more like humans but still having ape like behaviors
5. Oh, and then we have muscle attachments, dental arc, types of teeth, and many other aspects of the skull. Features that can be studied and read like a book of evolutionary progression.

Is that what you meant with "monkey"?

I had to study these things, how about you?

How about the zygomatic arc? See how it changes from the earlier skulls from a very ape like one to a more human like? These "monkeys" that walked on two legs... made axes... made spears... hunted... made clothes... discovered fire... discovered salt... yeah. We're just monkeys aren't we?

Still monkeys?....the angelic would agree.

And as we stand before them...will they allow your presence?
I believe one third of heaven fell over an argument about something that looks like us.

Two thirds of heaven lost their brothers over an argument about something that looks like us.

That we stand where the fallen once did.....

How would you feel if your brethren were replaced by a talking monkey?

 

[outhouse]

Read the book literally, but not like they tell you, not from the fantasy as if it happened long time ago, simply because no one knows.
Those who cooked these books wrote it as they see the creation in us, our bodies and They masked it as if talking about the bigger version, the planet (as above so below).
They have created a system of information to manipulate and enslave our minds, our perception, our Elohim (God).
They claim the fruit of life, us, and the water of life, our energy, commerce, what we produce.
They have to keep us blind and deaf.
Genesis one is all about you, learn the concepts and you will see, otherwise you will remain blind to the fact.
In chapter 2 verse 4 YHVH, the lord that became your god by default (altered your thinking and decision making), turned 'creation' upside down, find it in the verse.
Adam and Eve were children and legally (like us), remained so forever.
Not just ignorant children (innocent), but ones who don't even know how to ask, a lower position.
The Torah (the whole bible in fact), is a legal book, it is also a book that belongs to a specific HOUSE.
Read Shakespeare all the world's a stage=Gen1
He doesn't explain day 1 for this is the alchemy between man and woman creating a baby, where HEAVEN is the Mother (like Isis, goddess of heaven), and Earth, in this scenario, the Man who fertilizes the woman in her watery cave, that is why only the earth was תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ
Coming and going, or, wondering and bewildered
There was darkness upon the deep' of the cave (female in Hebrew = cave, נְקֵבָ&#1492
'And there is a potential for a new Elohim to be created'
The spirit of Elohim hovering over the water.
Or אוֹר in Hebrew=light.
These 3 letters אוֹר (light) tell you: All (everything) spins and vibrates =light, illusion.
The Garden was never East of Eden (in John Steinbeck's stories maybe).
Read: the garden (your body) is under מִקֶּדֶם the EDEN and Eden means House of Judgement E (house) Din (Judgement).
Mikedem (Hebrew) means from before, not east, not in this case.
It is closer to the earth than the Eden which is the Head so it is before.
It is (our body, the person) an empty shell and Lord Gad (intentional) breathes 'life' into the Adam he created from the Adamah (the system).
It is all as if and make believe.
These books were not written for us to see and hear, but for others.
We were told to obey even if it doesn't make sense, after all, we are at war with everything, according to their world view.

That has to be the worst translation I have ever heard. :slap:


I have never seen somthing so far away from the reality of history and scholarships.