FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
...I'd watch it.
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Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?
- Thread starter CG Didymus
- Start date
...I'd watch it.
captainbryce
Active Member
Well, I've done this a few times on other threads, but I might as well give it another go since no to many people could formulate a response to this. I think much of this comes down to biblical interpretation (or mis-interpretation of scripture). I don't think people take the creation accounts (yes, there is more than one of them) consistently with each other. But to me, it is clear that when you look at all of the creation accounts together, it holds up quite nicely. So here is generally how I like to explain my interpretation of "creation".
Genesis 1 (Captainbryce Translation)
1 In the beginning God created Jesus Christ as a spiritual being [extrapolated from John 1:3 and Colossians 1:15], through which he created the entire universe and everything in it (to include the angels in heaven, the Earth, the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the Planets, and all matter, energy, space and time). 2 The earth was formless and empty, and it was dark on the surface of the planet because thick clouds were covering the entire planet and blocked out the sunlight. [extrapolated from Job 38:4-9] The Spirit of God was hovering over the surface.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and the atmosphere was transformed and made translucent, so that the light from the sun could penetrate the clouds. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God spun the earth on it's axis, so that once every rotation, one side of the planet could be light, while the other side is dark. [extrapolated from Job 38:12-13] 5 God referred to the period of light hours as “daytime”, and referred to the period of the hours of darkness as “nighttime.”
And these events marked the end of the first age of creation, and the beginning of the second.
6 Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” 7 And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters on the surface from the water in the upper atmosphere, thereby establishing the earth's natural water cycle. 8 God called the space “sky.”
And these events marked the end of the second age of creation, and the beginning of the third.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters on the surface flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear.” And then plate tectonics caused the continental land masses to form. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:8-9] 10 God called the dry ground “land” and the waters “seas” and oceans. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout with vegetation—every sort of seed-bearing plant, and trees that grow seed-bearing fruit. These seeds will then produce the kinds of plants and trees from which they came.” And that is what happened. 12 Over time land produced vegetation—all sorts of seed-bearing plants, and trees with seed-bearing fruit. Their seeds produced plants and trees of the same kind. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:14-15] And God saw that it was good.
13 And these events marked the end of the third age of creation, and the beginning of the fourth.
14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And the atmosphere again was transformed, this time from translucent to transparent, and the heavenly bodies could now be seen for the first time. 16 God made the sun to light the day, and the moon to light the night. He also made the stars which you can now see at night too. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:19] 17 God set ALL these lights in the sky to light the earth, in different ways that help us 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And these events marked the end of the fourth age of creation, and the beginning of the fifth.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with flying animals of every kind.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that scurries and swarms in the water, and every sort of flying animal—each producing offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 Then God blessed them, and allowed them to reproduce in great numbers. The fish and sea creatures filled the seas, and flying animals filled the skies on the earth.”
23 And these events marked the end of the fifth age of creation, and the beginning of the sixth.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals.” And that is what happened. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God (or one of the angels that he previously created) said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
27 So God created human beings in his own image. First he created Adam, who was male, but then after so much time by himself Adam became lonely so God gave him a female partner, named Eve. But this will be discussed in more detail later in Genesis 2.
28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.” And human beings eventually populated the entire world and became the dominant species on the planet.
29 Then God said, “Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. 30 And I have given every green plant as food for all the animals” And that is what happened.
31 Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!
And these events marked the end of the sixth age, where God completed creation, and the beginning of the seventh age where God is no longer actively creating.
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captainbryce
Active Member
Adam?
captainbryce
Active Member
Adam?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And if he did come back as an ape....what then of you?
King Kong is greater than you?
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Well he's not greater than Denzel in Training Day who eloquently said "King Kong, Ain't Got Nothin' on Me!"
I take the Bible according to 2 Timothy 3:16, It is the inspired Word of God, some translations say God-breathed. It doesn't say parts of the Bible are God inspired Words, it is all God breathed. In Hebrew 6:18 it says that it is impossible for God to lie. So when you doubt some verses and accept some verses, where do you draw the line?
It also states in Isaiah 55:9 that God's thoughts and ways are much higher than our mortal minds can conceive, that is where Faith in God's Word takes over. IF, He in fact knows how many hairs we have on your heads, don't you think He can speak the world into existence? He is All-Powerful and All-knowing.
Just my humble thoughts,
Ron and Carol
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Hello Didymus, The Twin,
Everything that is written in Genesis is exactly as it was!!!
Some want to make out like that chapter 2 is different from chapter one. Chapter 1 tells exactly the proper order of creation, which even scientists admit. Some seeming differences, such as the creation of light on day one, and the creation of the sun and the moon on day 4. If you have a good concordance you will see that the words in Hebrew, are different. God actually created the sun and the moon on day one, but he lessened the swaddling band of thick clouds so that they could be seen on day four. The animals were created just as scientists have admitted is true in detail.
Chapter 2 goes into detail about some of the creation, as man and woman. Also we find in chapter 2 the answer to the reason why we are in the condition we are now in, WHY WE DIE. God made man to live forever, but Adam and Eve rebelled against God so He has allowed mankind to go their way for a certain period of time, then He will send His son to put and end to all rebellion and set up a paradise earth. The truth is, God's purpose was to have a perfect paradise earth inhabited with perfect humans living forever. God's purpose has not changed!! The fact is His purpose for this earth will be fulfilled in the exact time period that He originally purposed. The only difference is; most of mankind will have to be resurrected back to life,to fill the earth, Gen 1:26-28, Isa 45:18, Ps 37:29, John 3:16, Matt 20:28, John 5:28,29.
You do realize that the early humans used 100% of their brain, so with God's help I imagine they could overcome any problem.
Most of the argument about Genesis is because of Doctrinaire, which means that some believe that the Bible says one thing, when that is not what it actually means, as shown by other scriptures in the Bible. One great problem is; many people believe that the Bible says that the days of creation were 24hours long, when they were actually 7,000 years long, as can be determined by the time we are now living in, which are The Last Days of this age, or system of things. Since Adam was created in 4026BC, which was over 6,000 years ago, we are living in the last part of this 7th creative day, nearing the Thousand Year Judgment Day, Rev 20:4-7. So the creative days must be 7,000 years long, as each would be the same length.
Another problem is caused by science not believing what the Bible says about a swaddling band being around the earth, Job 38:7-9. Now, science uses a system for judging the age of once living things, called Carbon 14, dating. The problem comes when scientists test something that had lived. Because of the swaddling bans the living thing did not take in much Carbon 14 from space, because of the swaddling band. This caused the thing tested to appear much older than it actually was.
The other main way is by the use of Argon dating. This process cannot be used on once living things, but only on inanimate things. This would mean that anything tested would have to be in the exact place where found, in situ. That could hardly be true because of the worldwide flood in Noah's day.
Another problem for scientists is their inability to make anything reproduce anything except ACCORDING TO IT"S KIND, as the Bible says about 5 or 6 times. This is called Prestabilism, and is a law of creation that cannot be broken or sidestepped. This is a law put in all living things, by the Almighty Creator, for both animal and plant.
In spite of the many experiments by scientists, and their many improbations, and the Doctrinaires of some religious leaders, the Holy Scriptures are true exactly as written in Genesis.
Remember religion and Faith in God is absolutely extrascientific!!!
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Actually the orders in chapter 1 and 2 are different.
Also Where do you get that God made us to live forever? Without eating from the Tree of Life (the reason humans were kicked out were so they didn't eat from it), Adam and Eve were mortal.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I agree.
captainbryce
Active Member
Unfortunately, that is exactly what is required in order to interpret the creation story in the traditional way (IMHO).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But how could one actually determine what was "the traditional way", especially since it appears to be a reworking of a Babylonian narrative that preceded it by two centuries?
It's the ancient art of storytelling, whereas these were passed down orally and/or in written form, reworked to reflect the morals and values of the receiving group, and then passed on, again with new changes over the generations. We do this even in modern American society but sometimes don't recognize it.
It's the ancient art of storytelling, whereas these were passed down orally and/or in written form, reworked to reflect the morals and values of the receiving group, and then passed on, again with new changes over the generations. We do this even in modern American society but sometimes don't recognize it.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Do you have any pictures of Eve?Adam?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Are the Hindu Scriptures God-breathed? How about the Book of Mormon? Or the Koran? Lots of people say they are. What do you call those "Scriptures"? Mythology? Man-made religious stories? How about the Oral Torah of the Jews? Was that God-breathed? Do any of these Holy Books line up with the Christian Bible? Not really, there are contradictions. The Jews accept their Bible but reject the Christian NT. Why? Because of contradictions to their beliefs? Are there any contradictions that you know of between the Jewish Bible and the Christian NT? If not, is it because you take parts of the Bible as being allegorical? So it's not all literal?
You have to use your brain and your "spiritual" eye to figure out what's going on and what it means. Could Genesis be allegory? Why would it have to be literally true anyway? Isn't the point to believe in God and obey his rules or else bad things are going to happen to you and those around you. But what were those rules? If it's "God's Word" and he gave us some rules, what happened to all those rules? They aren't for today? They don't work? They don't make sense? Or, the Christian cop out, the Law was fulfilled? Yet, doesn't the Bible say that his Law is eternal? Or, isn't that literal?
captainbryce
Active Member
Moderator cut: image removed
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't blame Adam one bit. Whatever she offered, I would've taken a bite too.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Anyway seriously now, I was watching a Science channel show about Black Holes. It said that at the center of the Milky Way is a Black Hole. How do creationists explain any that? How do they explain all of the things going on in space? Things like galaxies, supernovas? Our solar system is just a tiny speck. Do You really think God started with the Earth and then added everything else around us?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
And he did it in accordance with 24 hours, day and night schedule at some unspecified timezone on Earth. Really strange idea to create 20 sixtillion stars based on one time zone on one single small planet next to a very small star.