can a priest really forgive sin?

[jmaster78]

Hi all, i read a book a while ago called 'Vicars of Christ-Dark side of the Papacy' it was very interesting with regards to some (many) of the people who have worn the Papal tiara. How they were regarded as earthly reps for G-D defied me. although modern Popes act more like they are meant to, do they or indeed the church really have as much power as we are lead to believe?

Do you think a priest has the power to forgive and purify a sinner?
Does the church have the right to excommunicate a person?
Does the church have the right to play G-D?
Is this a heresy on the churches behalf?

 

[Quiddity]

If anyone wants to learn about Catholicism, don't read Peter De Rosa's material. The dude is one angry anti-catholic. His works is so heavily baised that one doesn't have to be a catholic to spot it. It's mixed with half-truths and lies right by each other. There is many non-catholics with much more accurate works then him.

jmaster, I'm more then happy to be part of this thread but you have quite a few questions that can get lengthy to respond to. Can you possibly narrow this thread down to priest really forgive sins?

 

[quietlight]

Hi all, i read a book a while ago called 'Vicars of Christ-Dark side of the Papacy' it was very interesting with regards to some (many) of the freaks who have worn the Papal tiara. How they were regarded as earthly reps for G-D defied me. although modern Popes act more like they are meant to, do they or indeed the church really have as much power as we are lead to believe?

Do you think a priest has the power to forgive and purify a sinner?
Does the church have the right to excommunicate a person?
Does the church have the right to play G-D?
Is this a heresy on the churches behalf?

Be very careful about what you read regarding the Catholic Church. The amount of misinformation is quite incredible. That being said, there were some rather unsavory individuals who served as Popes, this much we know. But the actions of men do not nullify the truth.

Do I think that a priest has the power to forgive and purify a sinner?

Through Christ, a priest has been given this power. It is not of the priest's own power that he can do this, but rather as a gift from God. The priest is acting in the person of Christ.

Does the church have the right to excommunicate a person?

Excommunication is more of a recognition of the state that person is currently in. Now there are real consequences of being excommunicated (no longer able to receive the sacraments unless brought back into the church).

Does the church have the right to play God?

The church does not 'play' God. The authority of the church comes from the Apostles who were given their authority directly from Christ.

It is obvoius that the church is made of humans, but it is guided by the Holy Spirit.


Sorry for the short answers - I am very short on time...

 

[Bishka]

No, a preist does not have the power to forgive sin, only God has that power. The preist is there to help the sinner through the process and be the intermediary.

 

[jmaster78]

with regard to priests being able to cleanse sinners, some people will say the priest has the ability to purify, others will say the priest doesn't have the power to purify, Jesus uses the priest as a medium. But in ireland there are all sorts of headlines in the news about priests who havn't been as well behaved or pure as they should have been. So whether you think the priest has the power to purify or not, either way the whole idea of purifying someone through an impure priest is......strange. You wouldn't clean your clothes with dirty water?

 

[quietlight]

with regard to priests being able to cleanse sinners, some people will say the priest has the ability to purify, others will say the priest doesn't have the power to purify, Jesus uses the priest as a medium. But in ireland there are all sorts of headlines in the news about priests who havn't been as well behaved or pure as they should have been. So whether you think the priest has the power to purify or not, either way the whole idea of purifying someone through an impure priest is......strange. You wouldn't clean your clothes with dirty water?

A priest does not cleans the sinner - only God forgives sins. The priest acts on behalf of Christ. Your analagy breaks down - the sinner is not cleansed by a fallen man, but by God.

"Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, "The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41 1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out "on behalf of Christ" with "God making his appeal" through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."

 

[kateyes]

Hi all, i read a book a while ago called 'Vicars of Christ-Dark side of the Papacy' it was very interesting with regards to some (many) of the freaks who have worn the Papal tiara. How they were regarded as earthly reps for G-D defied me. although modern Popes act more like they are meant to, do they or indeed the church really have as much power as we are lead to believe?

Do you think a priest has the power to forgive and purify a sinner?
Does the church have the right to excommunicate a person?
Does the church have the right to play G-D?
Is this a heresy on the churches behalf?

First I think you can find books with pros and cons for any religion--I think you need to try and read both sides to form a balance opinion. Although the Pope is supposed to be God's representative on Earth--he is after all human and like all humans prone to errors. An ordained priest is again a representative--through him you recieve the forgiveness and blessings of God and Jesus. I think it is a matter of belief--if you accept him as God's representative you would therefore accept his forgiveness. I guess in general I would say any organization has the right to kick some out who doesn't follow the rules of the organization, I guess I don't see how excommuncation is much different than that. If you are Catholic it would seem to me that you would accept these issues. If you are not--then you probably going to question all of this. I think most churches would tell you they don't play God--but represent God.

 

[jacquie4000]

Victor........I would be curious to know your view on this lets just say on One subject at least Can a priest really forgive sins.

 

[athanasius]

with regard to priests being able to cleanse sinners, some people will say the priest has the ability to purify, others will say the priest doesn't have the power to purify, Jesus uses the priest as a medium. But in ireland there are all sorts of headlines in the news about priests who havn't been as well behaved or pure as they should have been. So whether you think the priest has the power to purify or not, either way the whole idea of purifying someone through an impure priest is......strange. You wouldn't clean your clothes with dirty water?

If you go to the doctor to get help for high blood pressure and the doctor writes you out a prescription for medicine to help you high bloodpressure, and the doctor himself smokes and has high blood pressure does that matter?? No its doesn't! Reguardless if the doctor is in good health himself or not, he can still give you the medicine you need because he has been given that Authority. Thus also with the priesthood. It is Christ who actually forgives the sins through the sinful human priest. He did give this Authority to his own sinful Apostles(JN 20:22-23) and they were sinful. Peter denied Jesus 3 times. Thats 3 mortal sins! Its Christ working through the priest. Its Chriswt who gives the Authrotiy to the priest of Christ to absolve. The priest personal sins have no affect on this sacrament becuase the priest does not absolve sins by "his" own power or authority but rather by the authrotiy and power that Jesus gave them at ordination. You need to meet some holy priest. Here in St Louis we have alot of them.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

By vocalizing one's sins to another person and having that person forgive them, much guilt is being removed, making the sin something that is no longer as much of a burden.

So, I see where the practicality of having a priest forgive a sin comes from. Whether or not there's an objective divinity in it, I'm not sure, but I tend to be of the opinion that there's divinity in everything.

 

[jmaster78]

i know that partcular book was written by someone with rather negative opinions of the church, like alot of the books i read i carry out research from different authors and angles before making a decision. but there are many sources (respectable resources) which say the same thing. I just wanted to clear that up so you don't think i'm naive to every thing i read.

Back to the point. If G-D forgives us, then why do we need the priest? some might say this is just another way of the church enforcing it's monopoly on the christian congregation. A way of making itself seem more important that it really is. In effect controlling the faith. Why do you need to go to confession if you could simply ask G-D yourself?

 

[athanasius]

By vocalizing one's sins to another person and having that person forgive them, much guilt is being removed, making the sin something that is no longer as much of a burden.

So, I see where the practicality of having a priest forgive a sin comes from. Whether or not there's an objective divinity in it, I'm not sure, but I tend to be of the opinion that there's divinity in everything.

Good point!

 

[jacquie4000]

Guitar's Cry........Nice Post.

 

[athanasius]

i know that partcular book was written by someone with rather negative opinions of the church, like alot of the books i read i carry out research from different authors and angles before making a decision. but there are many sources (respectable resources) which say the same thing. I just wanted to clear that up so you don't think i'm naive to every thing i read.

Back to the point. If G-D forgives us, then why do we need the priest? some might say this is just another way of the church enforcing it's monopoly on the christian congregation. A way of making itself seem more important that it really is. In effect controlling the faith. Why do you need to go to confession if you could simply ask G-D yourself?

It has been Gods method in the Old and New testaments to forgive the seroius sins of a individual through the ministry of his representative priest. Jesus also utilizes this concept. That in a nutshell is why. If you want to know why he does this, then ask God.:yes:

 

[quietlight]

It has been Gods method in the Old and New testaments to forgive the seroius sins of a individual through the ministry of his representative priest. Jesus also utilizes this concept. That in a nutshell is why. If you want to know why he does this, then ask God.:yes:

To add on to this point, this is how Jesus wanted it to be (which is the reason for the scripture that Athanasius pointed out).

Regarding the book that you read, I understand the desire to read opposing viewpoints, I would really encourage you to take the time to read some good Catholic books on the Sacrament of Reconciliation (in all fairness of understanding the concept).

 

[Quiddity]

Victor........I would be curious to know your view on this lets just say on One subject at least Can a priest really forgive sins.

Just read athanasius posts. That's pretty much what I think.

 

[jacquie4000]

Thanks I ask you before a Catholic posted at least that listed their religion but thanks.

 

[jmaster78]

By vocalizing one's sins to another person and having that person forgive them, much guilt is being removed, making the sin something that is no longer as much of a burden.

So, I see where the practicality of having a priest forgive a sin comes from. Whether or not there's an objective divinity in it, I'm not sure, but I tend to be of the opinion that there's divinity in everything.

very good point, but if i commit a great sin, tell someone which eases my guilt, does that mean the sin is forgiven? just because i feel less guilty? Does the guilt in your heart have any bearing on the amount of sin in your soul?

 

[Ernestine]

God is the only one who can forgive sins and that is only if He is approached in the name of his son, Jesus Christ serves as mediator and who by giving his life as a ranson sacrifice made it possible for us to approach God and ask for forgiveness. No man, not even a priest serves as mediator.

 

[quietlight]

God is the only one who can forgive sins and that is only if He is approached in the name of his son, Jesus Christ serves as mediator and who by giving his life as a ranson sacrifice made it possible for us to approach God and ask for forgiveness. No man, not even a priest serves as mediator.

Then what of the reference from Athenasius (specifically his reference to JN 20:22-23)?