-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
can a swaminarayan devotee please tell me the sugnificance
- Thread starter ratikala
- Start date
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
What do the scriptures say that we will achieve by following the dharma that is prescribed?
Asha
Member
Namaste
I think this may have been the point of the OP ? Do we realy realise what we are doing? Are we bringing too much of our secular life into our worship ? and are we doing it in too much of a flipant way ?
I know for certain some ISKCON temples came under heavy criticism for dressing Radha and Krishna in santa suits at christmas, and even as an ISKCON devotee I can identify completely with the complaints. When the Deities are in the shrine they are in Vrindavan, they are not in disney world, we shouldnt be bringing them into our world we should idealy be elevating ourselves to theirs.
Everything is now being cheapened, it is so sad and the sadest thing is this is being done here by Indian comunities.
I could understand If it was done by children but even still I would expect their parents to teach them respect, and correct this kind of mistakes.
I think this was Ratikala ji's point.
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
I think this may have been the point of the OP ? Do we realy realise what we are doing? Are we bringing too much of our secular life into our worship ? and are we doing it in too much of a flipant way ?
I know for certain some ISKCON temples came under heavy criticism for dressing Radha and Krishna in santa suits at christmas, and even as an ISKCON devotee I can identify completely with the complaints. When the Deities are in the shrine they are in Vrindavan, they are not in disney world, we shouldnt be bringing them into our world we should idealy be elevating ourselves to theirs.
Everything is now being cheapened, it is so sad and the sadest thing is this is being done here by Indian comunities.
I could understand If it was done by children but even still I would expect their parents to teach them respect, and correct this kind of mistakes.
I think this was Ratikala ji's point.
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Why does a god have to be dressed in an Indian flag when there are other human beings in other countries who may also wish to follow this god?
Instead they'd thank that country where the god is incarnated.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram Prabhu ji's
my appologies for multiple posts our computer crashed as I tried to post the last reply ....so have been of line since , ....well looks like Wales has its broad band back again .......
I have nothing against patriotism or being proud of Bharatvarsha....but if these people are so proud why place the Flag on the floor , ....this is the same as the amount of economic migrants of Indian origin here that come to the temple who sit with their feet pointing to the deities , or get up from a Bhagavad Gita class leaving the Gita on the floor .....
Jai Jai , .....and in Vrindarban Srimati Radhrani does not need a handbag , she has Gopis to bring her anything she needs , ...its a silly point but it is so indicative of our attitude of bringing the Deities down to our level instead of understanding why we enshrine a Deity in a temple ?
I wouldnt mind if the temple hall was decorated with Flags , that would be fine , ...but not RadhaKrsna , and No Flags on the shrine , ....
but there are other disturbing things going a couple of days after I discovered these Darshans I found this
I was shocked , ......
my appologies for multiple posts our computer crashed as I tried to post the last reply ....so have been of line since , ....well looks like Wales has its broad band back again .......
I have nothing against patriotism or being proud of Bharatvarsha....but if these people are so proud why place the Flag on the floor , ....this is the same as the amount of economic migrants of Indian origin here that come to the temple who sit with their feet pointing to the deities , or get up from a Bhagavad Gita class leaving the Gita on the floor .....
Jai Jai , .....and in Vrindarban Srimati Radhrani does not need a handbag , she has Gopis to bring her anything she needs , ...its a silly point but it is so indicative of our attitude of bringing the Deities down to our level instead of understanding why we enshrine a Deity in a temple ?
I wouldnt mind if the temple hall was decorated with Flags , that would be fine , ...but not RadhaKrsna , and No Flags on the shrine , ....
but there are other disturbing things going a couple of days after I discovered these Darshans I found this
I was shocked , ......
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram vinayaka ji
thank you I laughed so much
prabhu ji , ...you just said you were psychic ????
this is here in uk , and I have many many times praised Swaminayan devotees for their faltless deity serva and impecable temple etiquete , ..and ? ...Swaminarayan faith seem to claim at times to be Vaisnava ? .....allthough they seem to have departed some what from Vaisnava worship .
Free world ? what happened to Dharma ? ....are we now free to inturpret it how ever we like ?.....
BAPS have been so much more respectfull in their decorationd for the 26th , ...that I have no objections at all they have simply used the colours in the drapes and not on the Deities them selves , ....
there was a time when you would have been the First to agree that there are acceptable standards and traditions that must be kept .
thank you I laughed so much
prabhu ji , ...you just said you were psychic ????
this is here in uk , and I have many many times praised Swaminayan devotees for their faltless deity serva and impecable temple etiquete , ..and ? ...Swaminarayan faith seem to claim at times to be Vaisnava ? .....allthough they seem to have departed some what from Vaisnava worship .
Free world ? what happened to Dharma ? ....are we now free to inturpret it how ever we like ?.....
BAPS have been so much more respectfull in their decorationd for the 26th , ...that I have no objections at all they have simply used the colours in the drapes and not on the Deities them selves , ....
there was a time when you would have been the First to agree that there are acceptable standards and traditions that must be kept .
bp789
Member
Kind of late, but the murtis would be dressed up depending on the occasion. The murtis are dressed as the Indian flag to celebrate Republic Day (as to why the flag is on the floor, I don't know). If the people in the temple want to celebrate their children graduating from high school or university, then the murtis would be dressed in graduation clothes. Aside from that and maybe a few other occasions, the murtis are usually dressed up in traditional Indian clothes.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram bp ji
no problem , .....May I ask Are you Swami narayana member ?
please do not take this as any attack personaly , as a devotee at any temple can just accccept what the temple seniors think is correct , and the average devotee will trust that this is correct , .....I am very worried I looked very carefully at not just this swaminarayan sect but also at BAPS , ....as I also care for deities I have taken great interest for many years as to how deities are looked after and what is the correct protocol . I have allways been very impressed with the way BAPS temples look after their Deities they are allways impecably dressed in a manner that I understand to be completely respectfull to their position , I noticed that on these days the BAPS deities remained very suitibly dresses there was some use of the Indian coulors in the backgrounds this is more permissable ..
I was realy shocked to see Deities dressed like this , I would like to draw peoples attention to how we should see the Deities , ...I can understand that people want to celebrate secular and family occasions such as Graduation , but this is leading devotees to look at the Deities in the wrong way ,
for instance Sri Krsna should be dressed in accordance to his lila when he appears with Srimati Radhrani this should allways be Vrindarban lila , we should not take Sri Krsna or Srimati Radhrani out of this lila for the sake of our own personal cellebrations , ...
please read the quote below , from the Handbook of Sri Vaisnavism
''The Divine is the sustainer (adhara) and the jiva is the sustained (adheya). The jiva isan “expression” of the Divine and thus cannot exist without the Divine, but the Divine is asubstantive and can exist without expressing Itself through the jiva. The jiva is the subordinate(shesha) and God is the Principle (sheshin).''
''The Divine is the controller (niyantra) and the jiva is the controlled (niyamya). The Divine controls everything that happens within the entire universe. His control is not whimsical but
in accordance with the Universal Law (rta) which He Himself has established. In this sense the jiva is controlled. The jiva is subjected tolimitations of its own previous actions (karma)
but is free to initiate action as it pleases''
.
''And above all God is the Saviour (Rakshaka) and the jiva is the subject of salvation (rakshya).Greater is the Saviours’s desire to liberate each and every jiva than is the jiva’s desire to be
liberated''
from the Handbook of Sri Vaisnavism
chapter 2.1 , ...relationship between the lord and jiva
http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/handbook-of-srivaishnavism.pdf
particularly the bold section , ...
he Divine controls everything that happens within the entire universe. His control is not whimsical but in accordance with the Universal Law, ...
the same is explained in the Bhagavad Gita , ''not a blade of grass moves without his sanction ''
so the supreme is above these actions , he is above material life and allthough these things matter very much to us they are all part of his divine order , so should we not attempt to see him in a more divine position?
then the next passage this also is very interesting
....''And above all God is the Saviour (Rakshaka) and the jiva is the subject of salvation (rakshya).Greater is the Saviours’s desire to liberate each and every jiva than is the jiva’s desire to be
liberated''
only one person here knows me well enough to understand what I am saying , .....we go to the temple to take Darshan of the Lord to move away from our material concerns and for one moment move closer to the Lord , ....so why bring the lord into our material world when we upon entering the temple should be trying to enter his .
no problem , .....May I ask Are you Swami narayana member ?
please do not take this as any attack personaly , as a devotee at any temple can just accccept what the temple seniors think is correct , and the average devotee will trust that this is correct , .....I am very worried I looked very carefully at not just this swaminarayan sect but also at BAPS , ....as I also care for deities I have taken great interest for many years as to how deities are looked after and what is the correct protocol . I have allways been very impressed with the way BAPS temples look after their Deities they are allways impecably dressed in a manner that I understand to be completely respectfull to their position , I noticed that on these days the BAPS deities remained very suitibly dresses there was some use of the Indian coulors in the backgrounds this is more permissable ..
I was realy shocked to see Deities dressed like this , I would like to draw peoples attention to how we should see the Deities , ...I can understand that people want to celebrate secular and family occasions such as Graduation , but this is leading devotees to look at the Deities in the wrong way ,
for instance Sri Krsna should be dressed in accordance to his lila when he appears with Srimati Radhrani this should allways be Vrindarban lila , we should not take Sri Krsna or Srimati Radhrani out of this lila for the sake of our own personal cellebrations , ...
please read the quote below , from the Handbook of Sri Vaisnavism
''The Divine is the sustainer (adhara) and the jiva is the sustained (adheya). The jiva isan “expression” of the Divine and thus cannot exist without the Divine, but the Divine is asubstantive and can exist without expressing Itself through the jiva. The jiva is the subordinate(shesha) and God is the Principle (sheshin).''
''The Divine is the controller (niyantra) and the jiva is the controlled (niyamya). The Divine controls everything that happens within the entire universe. His control is not whimsical but
in accordance with the Universal Law (rta) which He Himself has established. In this sense the jiva is controlled. The jiva is subjected tolimitations of its own previous actions (karma)
but is free to initiate action as it pleases''
.
''And above all God is the Saviour (Rakshaka) and the jiva is the subject of salvation (rakshya).Greater is the Saviours’s desire to liberate each and every jiva than is the jiva’s desire to be
liberated''
from the Handbook of Sri Vaisnavism
chapter 2.1 , ...relationship between the lord and jiva
http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/handbook-of-srivaishnavism.pdf
particularly the bold section , ...
he Divine controls everything that happens within the entire universe. His control is not whimsical but in accordance with the Universal Law, ...
the same is explained in the Bhagavad Gita , ''not a blade of grass moves without his sanction ''
so the supreme is above these actions , he is above material life and allthough these things matter very much to us they are all part of his divine order , so should we not attempt to see him in a more divine position?
then the next passage this also is very interesting
....''And above all God is the Saviour (Rakshaka) and the jiva is the subject of salvation (rakshya).Greater is the Saviours’s desire to liberate each and every jiva than is the jiva’s desire to be
liberated''
only one person here knows me well enough to understand what I am saying , .....we go to the temple to take Darshan of the Lord to move away from our material concerns and for one moment move closer to the Lord , ....so why bring the lord into our material world when we upon entering the temple should be trying to enter his .
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Plenty of animosity towards Swaminarayan's here.
Looking far too deeply into the simple practice of changing the clothes of the Murti regularly and sometimes to match the occasion of the day.
Some of you should see, Swaminarayan's are doing more for Hinduism than hundreds of other groups out of India.
Looking far too deeply into the simple practice of changing the clothes of the Murti regularly and sometimes to match the occasion of the day.
Some of you should see, Swaminarayan's are doing more for Hinduism than hundreds of other groups out of India.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram
with all due respects this is not animosity aimed at Swaminayayan as a sect but at a small portion of devotees here in the uk who are trivialising deity worship .
it may seem irelavent to an atheist , but deity worship is something very dear to the majority of Hindus you may be unaware of the fact that there are texts which strictly govern Deity worship and any one involved in Deity worship particularly Temple Pujaris should be well aware of the correct procedures .
I have every respect for a large proportion of Swaminarayan s work in India , I just have very little respect for the small proportinn that encourage others to treat the Deities as dolls , .....
sorry if you have missunderstood my point in raising such an issue but this is of great concern amongst serious Pujaris , it is not an oppertunity to make un nececary criticism .
with all due respects this is not animosity aimed at Swaminayayan as a sect but at a small portion of devotees here in the uk who are trivialising deity worship .
it may seem irelavent to an atheist , but deity worship is something very dear to the majority of Hindus you may be unaware of the fact that there are texts which strictly govern Deity worship and any one involved in Deity worship particularly Temple Pujaris should be well aware of the correct procedures .
I have every respect for a large proportion of Swaminarayan s work in India , I just have very little respect for the small proportinn that encourage others to treat the Deities as dolls , .....
sorry if you have missunderstood my point in raising such an issue but this is of great concern amongst serious Pujaris , it is not an oppertunity to make un nececary criticism .