Alceste
Vagabond
So in your ever so humble opinion righteousness = credulity?
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Can an Atheist Pray?
- Thread starter mhiggs
- Start date
So in your ever so humble opinion righteousness = credulity?
javajo
Well-Known Member
True, as in James 1:5-7: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Yet the man who prayed to God for mercy, "have mercy on me a sinner", who could not even look up, but beat his chest, Jesus said he went away justified. So anyone can pray, especially a sinner accepting Christ. But as Hebrews 11:6 says: But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Green Kepi
Active Member
No...righteousness is placing my trust in the belief that God and Jesus are real and do exist...I have developed (thru study) my willingness to believe but it wasn't a trust that came too readily...over many years I found adequate evidence to do so...I would never call myself gullible. You probably do though...correct?
Smoke
Done here.
I pray. Every once in a while I fire up the censer and go around and cense the icons, and I cense my Buddhist and Hindu images, too. I say the Trisagion prayers. I say the Jesus Prayer. I read the Psalter aloud. I chant to Ganapati and I chant other Hindu mantras, too. I stand in the ocean and raise my hands to Poseidon. I stand out in the storm in silent awe of Thor or St. Elias or Perun or whoever he is. And I don't believe in any of it.
I'm caught up in awe and wonder. Life amazes me, and it doesn't matter that there is nobody to receive my reverence; I stand in reverence anyway. I imagine that many folks both religious and non-religious would think it foolish to dabble in different traditions like this, foolish not to pick a metaphor and stick with it, and odd to play at prayer as I do, but I don't care. I do it because it pleases me to do it; I don't expect to please anybody else.
I'm caught up in awe and wonder. Life amazes me, and it doesn't matter that there is nobody to receive my reverence; I stand in reverence anyway. I imagine that many folks both religious and non-religious would think it foolish to dabble in different traditions like this, foolish not to pick a metaphor and stick with it, and odd to play at prayer as I do, but I don't care. I do it because it pleases me to do it; I don't expect to please anybody else.
Alceste
Vagabond
No, I don't even know you. I wouldn't call you gullible - yet.
It's just that from my perspective righteousness is concerned more with what you do than what you think.Robert Pickton trusted and believed God and Jesus are real and exist. He thought they would approve of his murder of 26 prostitutes because they were ungodly, and that he was an angel acting on their behalf. I don't think anybody would call him righteous.
Green Kepi
Active Member
No, I don't even know you. I wouldn't call you gullible - yet.
Robert Pickton trusted and believed God and Jesus are real and exist. He thought they would approve of his murder of 26 prostitutes because they were ungodly, and that he was an angel acting on their behalf. I don't think anybody would call him righteous.
We agree on this then...Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments"...from my perspective, that's doing what He said. I can believe in God all day long and unless I act on it...doesn't do me any good whatsoever. As for murders who make false claims on God's behalf...God will deal with them on the Last Day.
Pickton will receive his reward on that Day...its a shame Canada only could give him the maximum sentence for second-degree murder of 25 years...but...that's Canada, not God....
Who is going to sort god out for all the evil he has done, if the biblical accounts of his misdeeds are accurate?
Wotan
Active Member
My how - convenient - for you.
Just curious are you opposed to restaurant inspections?
Green Kepi
Active Member
That's easy...no one. God is the one Supreme and Infinite Personal Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, to whom man owes obedience and worship. You call Biblical accounts "evil"; however, we are not the center of the universe, not the reference point against which goodness can be judged.
I know it sounds silly to you for me to even say that, but we all act and think as though God's goodness depends on how well we like what's going on.
None of us are in a position to judge the goodness or "so-called" evil of God's actions. We see too small a part of the overall picture - a picture that covers all of time and all of mankind....
Green Kepi
Active Member
My how - convenient - for you.
Just curious are you opposed to restaurant inspections?
Convenient? Please explain a little further...as for restaurants...heck, no...I like to eat out too much for that....
That's easy...no one. God is the one Supreme and Infinite Personal Being, the Creator and Ruler of the universe, to whom man owes obedience and worship. You call Biblical accounts "evil"; however, we are not the center of the universe, not the reference point against which goodness can be judged.
I know it sounds silly to you for me to even say that, but we all act and think as though God's goodness depends on how well we like what's going on.
None of us are in a position to judge the goodness or "so-called" evil of God's actions. We see too small a part of the overall picture - a picture that covers all of time and all of mankind....
I just can't understand how anyone can obey and worship such a nasty tyrant as portrayed in the bible. If I believed a deity really did exist in that form, I would be looking at ways to exterminate it as the ultimate source of all that is evil.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Please explain "nasty tyrant"? There was a reason that I believe he acted as He did...would you like to hear it?
If you ever come to the belief in Him in that form...good luck on finding a way to exterminate Him...the Devil tried that without much success....
I am sure Hitler thought he was acting for the best when he tried to exterminate the Jews!
Wotan
Active Member
Yes, convenient. You have no way to test this creature. No way to determine its existence. You just - believe.
But you do NOT just believe a restaurant is serving good food. You want independent verification.
Why the one and not the other? According to your mythology, the consequence of getting this god thing wrong are severe. And eternal. The consequences of a poorly done meal - somewhat less. So where is your independent verification that e.g. the Muslims are wrong? Or maybe the Jews? Or even - the Hindus?
SOMEBODY has it wrong. Maybe - you?:cover:
Green Kepi
Active Member
Not even close to comparable to God's actions...who are we to say God has to answer for His actions? You have most likely read many opinions as to why God acted as He did in the Old Scriptures...and I agree most ramble and there isn't too much that really makes sense...however, (this is my opinion)...
I believe that Genesis 6 gives us a hint as to the why's. According (a few listed) to the Book of Enoch, the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jewish Torah, and the historian Josephus. Angels came down to earth and mated with earthly women. This produced off-springs which were evil (they also had no souls). Isaiah 26:14 says that they do not rise. I Cor. 11:10 also states that it was because of the beauty of the women's hair (II Peter 2:4 also deals with this).
Anyway...the only reason Noah's lineage was spared...was that they had not inbred with these beings. Now notice, Genesis 6:4 the words, "and also afterwards" meaning after the flood, something happened again. I think this explains God's actions later in the Scriptures with all the killing He allowed.
Anyway...there is so much to add and I don't have the time...but thanks a million for reading and listening to my "ramblings"....
Green Kepi
Active Member
True...but...I like my chances based on my study and the history I've studied. The same comes back to you...what if you are wrong? If I'm correct...I'm okay...If I'm wrong...I really haven't lost anything. Either way...neither of us can prove "this creature" exists or does not...we both are hanging on to faith (one way or the other)....
Wotan
Active Member
Oh I think you have indeed "lost" something. Your life. The only one you will ever have.
You will have spent this very short time in slavery to an ancient and hateful myth. Your entire life revolves around this god and is spent trying to do what you think IT wants you to do.
Hard to imagine a more depressing or pointless existence.
Oh I think you have indeed "lost" something. Your life. The only one you will ever have.
You will have spent this very short time in slavery to an ancient and hateful myth. Your entire life revolves around this god and is spent trying to do what you think IT wants you to do.
Hard to imagine a more depressing or pointless existence.
Let us have empathy the believers. Some of them whom are happy despite such magical thinking.
We're all slaves to our illusions...mine are just more material. But I like my illusions.
A prophet builds a castle in the sky.
A believer lives in this castle in the sky.
A priest collects the rent.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Oh I think you have indeed "lost" something. Your life. The only one you will ever have.
You will have spent this very short time in slavery to an ancient and hateful myth. Your entire life revolves around this god and is spent trying to do what you think IT wants you to do.
Hard to imagine a more depressing or pointless existence.
No skin off my back...if I were to discover tomorrow that this was really false...its been a great trip! I have been so blessed in my belief and have a "peace that surpasses all understanding". I look and work with so many miserable people around me that does not have this Hope...I don't want what they have. So...we both will discover in the end who was right and who was wrong...don't feel sorry for me...I'm okay and very happy with this "so-called" pointless existence....
What sort of evil b*stard floods the whole world just because it had a temper tantrum? But of course the whole story isn't credible there is no evidence for a world wide flood, I find it incredible that anyone should actually believe such a myth to be factual!