Can any creationist tell me ...

[sayak83]

If I may say, I am not like other Christians, these Christians only know what their pastors will tell them, they can't think for themselves. The same with other people on the outside of bible, will condemn the bible without actually knowing what the bible does actually will say and support.

People will point at the dinosaurs bones and say, see there the dinosaurs bones disproves the earth as being 6000 yrs old as you Christians will say.
But in really looking at the bible, the bible does support the dinosaurs bones as being Million of yrs old and the earth it's self as being Millions if not Billion of yrs old.
You see these Christians only goes by what they have been told by their pastors.
They are blind leaders, leading the blind.

There is so much in the bible that will disprove what these pastors are teaching.

I really don't care what those young earth creationists will say, Their only going by what they have been taught by their pastors, they don't have the common sense of putting 2&2 to equal 4.

As it takes is common sense will tell you that sense the dinosaurs bones are dated to about Millions or even billions of yrs old, then the earth it's self would be that old also.


There are things in the bible that stand out, if a person has the ears to hear and eyes to see, So let's take crack at this and see if you can at lease see.Ok.

First let's come to the understanding that there were two floods of water to come upon the earth.whether or not you believe in the flood of Noah's or not.

The flood of Noah's was the second flood of water to come upon the earth.

Notice that in the book of Genesis 1:1 --"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Note that after earth there is a Period. Meaning nothing else was added.
Therefore the question would be when was the beginning? There's nothing to us exactly how old the earth really is. Only we have the dinosaurs bones that date back to some Millions or even Billions of yrs ago.

Note that in the book of Genesis 1:2 --"And the earth was without form and void: and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"
Note the word ( was ) the Greek translation for this word is ( became ) So now the question is, what happened to the earth that the earth became without form and void?
Note also the earth was covered with water. The young earth creationists will give every answer to this which will not make no common sense at all.

Now why would God who is all powerful, create the earth and then cover the whole earth over with water, and then later cause the land to appear?
Seeing God is all powerful why not just create the earth and then put the water in it's rightful as it is now?

So something happened that caused the water to cover the whole earth, wouldn't you think?
In the book of 2 Peter, Peter trys to explain the best that he can, that in Verse 1, Peter writes this second letter, saying, I now write unto you, in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance.

You see Peter is trying to get us to remember in our minds about the world that then was.
Note in Verse 3 of 2 Peter, Knowing this first , that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts"

Here we find the young earth creationists, the scoffers, which will scoff at anything that does not fit into their agenda.

Note here the young earth creationists saying in Verse 4 --"And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation"

Verse 5 --"For this they are willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water, Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, Perished"

You see even Peter saying, those that claim the earth as being a young earth are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of water and in the water.

You see even the word God proves that the heavens and the earth are of old, just how old, will we have the witnesses of the dinosaurs bones which date back to Millions and Billions of yrs old.

Notice Peter written the earth standing out of the water and in the water, Note back in the book of Genesis 1:2 the earth being covered with water?

Note Peter wrote the world that then was , being overflowed with water, Perished?

Note that this is not the flood of Noah's,
That in the flood of Noah's there were 8 people saved and the animals, But here Peter wrote Perished. There was nothing left over, that everything Perished.

Note in Verse's 15&16, that Peter wrote about Paul had written of these very same things.
"As our beloved brother Paul also According to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things I which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle, as they do also the other scriptures, into their own destruction"

You see the young earth can not make heads or tails about the scriptures.that they wrestle the scriptures into fit their own little agenda. They are unlearned and unstable because they will the teachings of their pastors which have no clue what so ever what the scriptures actually do say.

You see the world that then was, is that world of the dinosaurs, that was destroyed by a gigantic flood of water that covered the whole earth, That would make the flood of Noah's look like a small swimming pool of water.
You can read all about all of this throughout God's word.

You see the young earth creationists can not handle any of this. All because it does not fit into what they have been taught by their pastors, but non the less it's all there in God's word.whether people wants to Except it or not that's up to them. But still the same it's all there, to prove that the earth is over Million if not Billion of yrs old.

The dinosaurs bones stands there as God's witnesses of the world that then was.

While your exegesis is a bit too complicated for a non-Christian to follow, I appreciate the fact that you attempt to take note of scientific conclusions while thinking about your religious beliefs.

 

[DavidFirth]

It predicts *observations* that can be made. In this case, it predicts what sorts of fossils will be found, in what layers, and how they will be similar to those found ion other layers.

Because of the statistical nature of evolution, and the unknown nature of the environment into the future, specific forward predictions are impossible.

But they are also not required for the testing of the theory.

You dodged my request. Please do make your predictions.

 

[Polymath257]

You dodged my request. Please do make your predictions.

I did not. I showed that your request was ill-constructed and not relevant.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I can't respond to this in a way that wouldn't get me kicked out of RF. Suffice to say, you should be embarrassed (unless you're a troll who's just trying to make Christians look pathetically ignorant of the basics of science).

Well that was more than I wanted tbh! I don't believe scripture has any authority, I don't believe it has any value as a source of information, though it has interest from an historical/cultural viewpoint, it tells us what our ancestors believed. I am glad you hear you say the fossil record indicates we are not living on a "young Earth". It shows you do not blindly follow what others tell you, but look at the evidence. Being a Christian does not mean you have to oppose science as the work of the devil!

You are correct. When I was young, I was taught about creation. But not grabbing a hold of it like others. I believed that all life started at Adam and Eve in the creation week.
Until I was around 15 or 16 yes of age in highschool, in the 8th grade and in the science class. When we were studying about the dinosaurs bones, and discovered the dinosaurs bones were Millions of yrs old. So I started to question inside of myself, how could this be, dinosaurs bones being Millions of yrs old, When the earth is only 6000 yrs old.
So every now and then I would stop and think about these dinosaurs bones.

I look all around for more answers to this question. But couldn't find the answers I was looking for. Until one day it hit me. Waite if anyone would actually know about these dinosaurs. Then surely God in his word would say something as to why they are here and how they came to be.

So started studying God's word for the answers.
I started in Genesis 1;1&2.. when I read verse 1, I notice that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
But it didn't say when or how long ago this happen.only in the beginning, which could mean a very long time ago.

Then I read verse 2 and found the earth was without form and void.

I notice the word ( was ) and in the Greek translation the word was, ment = became.

So what happened that the earth became without form and void.
And why would God create the earth and then cover it over with water, and then some time later have the earth come up out of the water in it's rightful place as it is now.
Why not just create the earth and put the water in it's rightful place as it is now. Why go thru all that trouble of covering the earth with water, and then bring the earth up out the water?
Which never made much sense to me.

Then it wasn't soon that I discovered that in other parts of the Bible, there were things making mentioning about a world before this world came to be.about a world that then was. About how God speaking to Job about the behemoth that ate grass and had a tail like a cedar tree. Do you understand just how big a cedar tree can get, that is one big animal.

Then I found in the book of Jeremiah 1:5 that how God knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was formed in his mother's belly.
Therefore we were with God before we came to be formed in our mother's belly.

This would lead to the first earth age, where the dinosaurs came from. That now we're in the second earth age, and the third earth age is to come when Christ Jesus returns.

What happened to that earth age of the dinosaurs, well According to the scriptures, Satan started his rebillion against God. And because of Satan's rebellion caused a big disruption in heaven and on earth, and darkness was cast throughout heaven and on earth, rather than God destroy everything.God destroyed all life upon the earth. Which to day we find evidence of that first earth age in the dinosaurs bones.

We know that Satan does not have the power of creation.and it's not like the dinosaurs bones were floating around in space and then one day the bones just fell here on earth and covered themselves over with dirt for over a Millions yrs.

There is no where in the creation week that God made any animals that big.
And when God brought all the animals to Adam to give them names.there is mentioning of any animals this big.

So the only explanation that can be explained, is the dinosaurs were here on earth, way before Adam and Eve and this world that we live in, ever came to be.

If you have any other explanation where or how the dinosaurs bones which are dated to be Millions of yrs old, as to how they came to be here on earth. I would like to hear, otherwise I'll stick with what God has given in his word about the world that then was.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I did not. I showed that your request was ill-constructed and not relevant.

That's because God's teachings will never come the slightest of lining up to man's teachings.
Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my way higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts"

Therefore just because you can not see the things of the Spirit of God does not mean they are not there.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them, because they are Spiritually discerned" 1 Cor 2:14.

According to what God has given in the book of Revelation of Prophecy.
What is the last Prophecy to happen that when this Prophecy happens Christ Jesus returns?
Knowing this Prophecy comes by the Spirit of God. For it is Spiritually discerned by the Spirit of God.

As in the book of Mark 13 Christ Jesus gives what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, and when it will happen and who can commit it.
This too is spiritually discerned by the Spirit of God.

 

[DavidFirth]

I did not. I showed that your request was ill-constructed and not relevant.

So, basically, you cannot make predictions based on macroevolution theory. Hmm... Not a very good, viable theory.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So, basically, you cannot make predictions based on macroevolution theory. Hmm... Not a very good, viable theory.

Your right about one thing, macroevolution is a theory, do you understand what a theory means, it means just that, it's a theory. It's man's theory in and about something that can not be proven because it just a theory.

 

[Polymath257]

So, basically, you cannot make predictions based on macroevolution theory. Hmm... Not a very good, viable theory.

Yes, we *can* make predictions. The predictions are of the types of fossils we will find, where we can find them, and how they will be similar to others. We can also predict the amount of similarities between species based on DNA, etc. These are ALL predictions of evolutionary theory.

 

[DavidFirth]

Your right about one thing, macroevolution is a theory, do you understand what a theory means, it means just that, it's a theory. It's man's theory in and about something that can not be proven because it just a theory.

According to secular standards a theory isn't a good theory if accurate predictions cannot be made from it. So I guess all of evolution theory is not a good theory - according to them, not me.

 

[DavidFirth]

Yes, we *can* make predictions. The predictions are of the types of fossils we will find, where we can find them, and how they will be similar to others. We can also predict the amount of similarities between species based on DNA, etc. These are ALL predictions of evolutionary theory.

That is not predictions. That's the past. Predictions involve the future.

What will apes evolve into? According to macroevolution theory they are evolving as we speak. What are they becoming?

 

[Polymath257]

That is not predictions. That's the past. Predictions involve the future.

Future *observations*.

What will apes evolve into? According to macroevolution theory they are evolving as we speak. What are they becoming?

A new type of ape, just like we are.

 

[DavidFirth]

Future *observations*.



A new type of ape, just like we are.

We are not a "new type of ape." You'd better look it up. Our ancestors supposedly weren't apes but ape-like creatures. The truth is that macroevolutionists don't know what we supposedly were, they have to guess at it, so I can understand your confusion.

Okay, so now you can take me through the DNA of the ape that is changing, what exactly is changing, why its changing and what it is changing to. Should be simple. You've got ape DNA. So go for it.

 

[Jose Fly]

Your right about one thing, macroevolution is a theory, do you understand what a theory means, it means just that, it's a theory. It's man's theory in and about something that can not be proven because it just a theory.

Oh for the love of.......

Another Christian who perpetuates this "it's only a theory" ignorance. Unbelievable.

 

[Polymath257]

We are not a "new type of ape." You'd better look it up. Our ancestors supposedly weren't apes but ape-like creatures. The truth is that macroevolutionists don't know what we supposedly were, they have to guess at it, so I can understand your confusion.

Our immediate ancestors were apes. They were not any of the *modern* apes, but they were apes. But then, *we* are apes also.

Okay, so now you can take me through the DNA of the ape that is changing, what exactly is changing, why its changing and what it is changing to. Should be simple. You've got ape DNA. So go for it.

You seem to think it is a deterministic process. It isn't. It is stochastic and dependent on the specific mutations that arise and on the environment. Also, each line will evolve in a different direction. Split populations will diverge, etc.

 

[DavidFirth]

Our immediate ancestors were apes. They were not any of the *modern* apes, but they were apes. But then, *we* are apes also.



You seem to think it is a deterministic process. It isn't. It is stochastic and dependent on the specific mutations that arise and on the environment. Also, each line will evolve in a different direction. Split populations will diverge, etc.

Actually, I think the whole theory is a garbage dump.

 

[Polymath257]

Actually, I think the whole theory is a garbage dump.

Your opinion and its value are duly noted.

 

[Jose Fly]

Actually, I think the whole theory is a garbage dump.

So?

 

[Skwim]

According to secular standards a theory isn't a good theory if accurate predictions cannot be made from it. So I guess all of evolution theory is not a good theory - according to them, not me.

Despite the misnomer "Theory of Evolution," biological evolution is a conclusion not a theory. The theory part comes in in explaining its operation. Take the theory of structural adaptation: organisms evolve by adapting to deleterious pressures by modifying their structure . If we introduce a detrimental agent into the environment of disease microorganisms we would expect them to evolve a defense to it: modifying those structures that render the microorganism vulnerable. And this is exactly what we see.

"Many human diseases are not static phenomena, but capable of evolution. Viruses, bacteria, fungi and cancers evolve to be resistant to host immune defenses, as well as pharmaceutical drugs. These same problems occur in agriculture with pesticide and herbicide resistance."
Source: Wikipedia​

Come across a disease and start treating it and it is expected that somewhere down the line it will evolve a defense against the treatment, prompting us to devise a new one.



.

 

[metis]

Your right about one thing, macroevolution is a theory, do you understand what a theory means, it means just that, it's a theory.

In science, theory" means something different than it does in most non-scientific circles:

"A scientific theory is an explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can, in accordance with the scientific method, be repeatedly tested, using a predefined protocol of observations and experiments. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and are a comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.

It is important to note that the definition of a "scientific theory" (often ambiguously contracted to "theory" for the sake of brevity, including in this page) as used in the disciplines of science is significantly different from the common vernacular usage of the word "theory". In everyday non-scientific speech, "theory" can imply that something is an unsubstantiated and speculative guess, conjecture, idea, or, hypothesis; such a us age is the opposite of the word "theory" in science. These different usages are comparable to the differing, and often opposing, usages of the term "prediction" in science versus "prediction" in vernacular speech, denoting a mere hope... -- Scientific theory - Wikipedia

 

[metis]

So the only explanation that can be explained, is the dinosaurs were here on earth, way before Adam and Eve and this world that we live in, ever came to be.

You might consider that the creation accounts (there are two of them) are probably to be taken as allegory. Taking them literally really doesn't make any sense, especially since our style of writing, which is found in all books in the Torah and Tanakh, often use symbolism, allegory, metaphors, parables, etc. a great deal. Even the N.T. also uses these quite often.