McBell
Unbound
Interesting.
Is it your contention that all spirits are gods?
Do you believe that spirits must be involved for one to be spiritual?
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Can atheists be spiritual?
- Thread starter satori8
- Start date
Interesting.
Is it your contention that all spirits are gods?
Do you believe that spirits must be involved for one to be spiritual?
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the point you're making, Mestemia.
Is something being lost in translation?
Atheism - the belief that there is no God or gods.
Monotheism- the belief that there is a single, all-powerful God.
Polytheism- the belief that there are multiple gods.
Atheists deny the existence of the Divine Spirit, the spirit world and the survival of the spirit. I fail to see how they can be 'spiritual' in any way, other than being - as we all are - spirits in a physical body, only not recognising it.
McBell
Unbound
You did it again.
You seem to think that "spirit" and "god" are the same thing.
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
Yeah, denying god does not mean denying more than physical existence. I suppose that it might be hard for some people to imagine spirituality without god, but it exists.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
"You seem to think"...
Let me break it down for you...
God is Spirit
The Spirit of God animates all life
Man is spirit in a physical body
At 'death' the physical body perishes, but the spiritual body lives on.
That is what I think.
I also think your understanding of atheism may be awry. Atheists do not believe in God, they do not believe in souls, they do not believe in a Heaven/afterlife/spirit world and obviously they do not believe in survival of the spirit either.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
I know a few atheists that fail to fit your definition of them.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
That may be so, but it is not a teaching/belief of the Atheist Society nor the Humanist Association.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
You certainly don't need to believe in a god to be truly spiritual, and that is what atheist are, they simply don't believe in a god. To be yourself and live your life without need to understand why you are here, is freedom, just like the animals, they don't need to know where they come from or where they are going, they simply live their lives.
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
I think the problem here is that "atheism" isn't an organized system, it is a word that simply designates lack of theism. There are lot's of types of atheists, some are materialist atheists who only believe science, think everything is material and basically have no inclination to spirituality. Not all atheists are even humanists. The problem is the types of things associated with the word atheist.
I would consider myself a non-theist, god is no longer a relevant concept to me, but I am a very spiritual person and believe in spirits and the interconnectedness of life and reality beyond material experience. The term non-theist seems to have less baggage associated with it.
Now,
This is what you think. Your brand of spirituality is not shared by everyone and to assume that yours is the true brand of spirituality is naive. You believe what you believe, that's fine, whatever, but it is not the only one. There are many different spiritual frameworks that people use.
In reference to your last paragraph,
This is an example of what I said about the word atheism being associated with other beliefs that often accompany the lack of belief in god. The term atheism alone does not imply anything else but lack of theism. Say what you want but, any additional meaning attributed to the term is only that, an addition.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
1) It is probably the case that lines over these matters are more clearly defined in some countries than in others, which might lead to differences, but one can only speak from one's own perspective.
2) Again, a personal perspective. Everyone's view is different.
What religion one follows, how one does or doesn't view God ... Of limited relevance I feel. Ultimately, it is our deeds that define us.
3) Well exactly. That is what I think, as opposed to somebody telling me what I'm thinking or implying that they know what I'm thinking...
I would have thought that was clear enough.
I suggest you read what I wrote again , friend, nowhere did I say my brand of spirituality, as you put it, was the 'true' brand or the 'only' one.
4) I think atheists would take issue with you on that. Just to bracket it as not believing in God is far too simplistic. Atheists, or at least all the ones over here, have a distinct moral code and life view.
And that is significant? Why so?
Truth be told, you may have a point in that "spiritual" is a difficult and probably misnamed concept.
All the same, it is difficult to conceive of anything significant that is unattainable for Atheists due to their Atheism.
McBell
Unbound
Are you trying to say that you believe that belief in God is necessary for religious practice and/or for spirituality?
Why would you think so?
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
2) I was just presenting that as an example of someone (me) who is spiritual adhering to belief in God.
3) They way you presented that post made it sound authoritative and absolute, rather than opinion, so I interpreted it as you thinking an atheist couldn't be spiritual because:
So, I just realized that I misinterpreted that post
My apologies.4) Atheists can take issue with that all they want but, that is based on their own individual beliefs. Speaking by definition only, atheism is lack of belief in a deity. I have seen many atheists on the forum assert that atheism is nothing more than that (usually because they are offended that people considered atheism to be a belief system
)Anyway, I find no problem in the assertion that atheism alone does not imply lack of spirituality. I dont know if you are from the USA but, here, basically an atheist is associated with irreligious and scientific materialist, to put it very generally. While these things are associated with the term atheism because of the prevalence of these things occurring at the same time, many people take atheism, in and of itself, to imply a lack of spirituality as well. I find it illogical to imply that atheism is inherently lacking in spirituality. It changes from one person to the next, just like how a person could be a catholic and not really practice their religion. Just because a (maybe) majority of atheists are lacking in spirituality and are materialists who only follow science, does not mean that atheism implies lack of spirituality.
Like I mentioned earlier, I guess the term just has all this baggage associated with it at this point. Perhaps terms like non-theist or trans-theist are more appropriate for a spirituality without a god concept.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for Brazil, I can only only speak from my own perspective here in England.
I don't doubt that there are some free-thinking atheists here who may have formulated their own ideas and thoughts which might differ from the mainstream, but by and large atheists/humanists here have the same belief system with a set moral code and view of life, as set out by the Atheist Society and British Humanist Association.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
So, I just realized that I misinterpreted that post
You did, but no matter. I appreciate your manners and good grace. Thank you.
That is both unlikely and not clearly connected to your statement.
Knight of Albion
Well-Known Member
Atheists can take issue with that all they want but, that is based on their own individual beliefs. Speaking by definition only, atheism is lack of belief in a deity. I have seen many atheists on the forum assert that atheism is nothing more than that (usually because they are offended that people considered atheism to be a belief system
Anyway, I find no problem in the assertion that atheism alone does not imply lack of spirituality. I dont know if you are from the USA but, here, basically an atheist is associated with irreligious and scientific materialist, to put it very generally. While these things are associated with the term atheism because of the prevalence of these things occurring at the same time, many people take atheism, in and of itself, to imply a lack of spirituality as well. I find it illogical to imply that atheism is inherently lacking in spirituality. It changes from one person to the next, just like how a person could be a catholic and not really practice their religion. Just because a (maybe) majority of atheists are lacking in spirituality and are materialists who only follow science, does not mean that atheism implies lack of spirituality.
Like I mentioned earlier, I guess the term just has all this baggage associated with it at this point. Perhaps terms like non-theist or trans-theist are more appropriate for a spirituality without a god concept.
Yes, I would term atheism/humanism as a 'belief'. I don't know what else one would term it? It obviously isn't a faith!
They take it pretty seriously over here. Well organised. It's a common occurrence for the BBC and the national newspapers to consult the British Humanist Association for their alternative view on religious and moral issues of the day.
As well they should. Interesting how a nominally theocratic state such as Great Britain sets such an example in respect for religious diversity.