Can atheists be spiritual?

[s2a]

I am afraid, an atheist can't be spiritual.
How can a person be spiritual?, if he doesn't believe in spirits?

Not to be just silly and aloof, but...

What were you like before you came into existence?

Favorite TV shows, newspapers, blogs?

Any?

Were you "spiritual" before you arrived in the here and now?

Why or why not?

Does it seem "important" to "be spiritual" when reflecting upon your billions of years of non-existence today, or more so upon your billions of years of non-existence henceforth?

I have an idea: focus upon your known existence here and today.

Your neighbors will thank you for it...

 

[Simurgh]

and we would need to be"spiritual" because....?

what does this even mean in this context?

 

[YmirGF]

and we would need to be"spiritual" because....?

what does this even mean in this context?

I tend to agree. At 57, I no longer pretend to know what "being spiritual" even means. From the definitions given by others, I'm pretty sure it's not something I want any part of.

 

[Sha'irullah]

You can indeed be spiritual without a god or without religion. Considering that I am a Deist I am not far removed from atheism in regards to acceptance of spiritual claims (superstitions, angels and revelations).

Most Deists in the past where highly spiritual and pious who placed emphasis on god and mankind's delight in experiencing bliss without god or religion. It is spoken of as if it is a default state for humanity

 

[Simurgh]

I tend to agree. At 57, I no longer pretend to know what "being spiritual" even means. From the definitions given by others, I'm pretty sure it's not something I want any part of.

I agree with you there, maybe it's just because when we get older all this fluffy crap loses its appeal. after all, reality can teach you a few things that trying to get in tune with cosmic forces just doesn't.

i think that is why some people find "spirituality" in a bottle.

 

[Chalant]

Why dont we define 'spiritual' before continuing this discussion?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I agree with you there, maybe it's just because when we get older all this fluffy crap loses its appeal. after all, reality can teach you a few things that trying to get in tune with cosmic forces just doesn't.

i think that is why some people find "spirituality" in a bottle.

On the other hand, I know and have known many people who as they age, become more and more attracted to and enmeshed in what I think you mean by "all this fluffy crap." They have experiences in reality--whatever that means--and somehow become more "spiritually" oriented.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Why dont we define 'spiritual' before continuing this discussion?

We could of course look to accepted dictionaries such as the Oxford English Dictionary for the standard usage definitions. I've tried that before and rarely gotten any response.

However, a way of defining spirituality that I personally like to consider spirituality to be a quest for meaning in life. Looked at this way, theists, non-theists, atheists, and anti-theists are all quite capable of being spiritual.

 

[Simurgh]

On the other hand, I know and have known many people who as they age, become more and more attracted to and enmeshed in what I think you mean by "all this fluffy crap." They have experiences in reality--whatever that means--and somehow become more "spiritually" oriented.

and again, that fluffy crap also referred to as spirituality, what is it?

I am not the only one who asked for the term to be defined. i hear it often enough in the context of people claiming to be spiritual, yet not one has been able to define exactly what that means.

You know, "SPIRITUAL"!!!??? is just not an adequate reply to such a question, but it's the one that seems to be the only one available. Hence, its fluffy crap to me.


The quest for meaning in life is nothing spiritual to me. it is merely a rational way of finding and delineating one's purpose.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

and again, that fluffy crap also referred to as spirituality, what is it?

I am not the only one who asked for the term to be defined. i hear it often enough in the context of people claiming to be spiritual, yet not one has been able to define exactly what that means.

You know, "SPIRITUAL"!!!??? is just not an adequate reply to such a question, but it's the one that seems to be the only one available. Hence, its fluffy crap to me.


The quest for meaning in life is nothing spiritual to me. it is merely a rational way of finding and delineating one's purpose.

Am I the only person here who ever looks at a dictionary? You and others have asked for a definition of the term--here you go, since no one else will supply one.

From the Oxford English Dictionary (online):

[FONT=&quot]spiritual, adj. and n.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pronunciation:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] /ˈspɪrɪtjuːəl/ [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Forms:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] ME spirituel(l, ME–15 spirituelle, ME spyrytuele, ME spyryt-, spyrit-, spirytuel(l... [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Etymology:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] < Old French spirituel (12th cent., = Italian spirituale , Spanish espiritual ... [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] A. adj.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I. 1. a. Of or relating to, affecting or concerning, the spirit or higher moral qualities, esp. as regarded in a religious aspect. (Freq. in express or implied distinction to bodily, corporal, or temporal.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. Applied to material things, substances, etc., in a figurative or symbolical sense.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. Of songs, etc.: devotional, sacred; spec. in sense B. 5.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]†d. Of transcendent beauty or charm. Obs.—1[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]e. spiritual home n. (with no religious connotation), a place or milieu, other than one's home, which seems especially congenial or in harmony with one's nature, or to which one feels a sense of belonging or indebtedness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2. a. Of, belonging or relating to, concerned with, sacred or ecclesiastical things or matters, as distinguished from secular affairs; relating to the church or the clergy; ecclesiastical.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]†b. Of law: canon, canonical. Obs.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]†c. Of a day: devoted to or set apart for special religious or sacred observances; holy. Obs.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]d. spiritual court n. a court having jurisdiction in matters of religion or ecclesiastical affairs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3. Of persons: a. Standing to another, or to others, in a spiritual relationship.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. Ecclesiastical, religious. Freq. in spiritual lords and spiritual man (or person).[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. Devout, holy, pious; morally good; having spiritual tendencies or instincts.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]†d. spiritual parent n. a sponsor, god-parent; also, a person to whom one owes one's spiritual life or conversion. Obs[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4. a. Of or relating to, consisting of, spirit, regarded in either a religious or intellectual aspect; of the nature of a spirit or incorporeal supernatural essence; immaterial. In early use not always distinct from sense A. 1.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. Appropriate or natural to a spirit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. spiritual healing n. cure or healing attributed to the agency of (a) spirit; faith healing.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5. Consisting of pure essence or spirit; volatile; spirituous, alcoholic. Now rare or Obs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6. Of or relating to, emanating from, the intellect or higher faculties of the mind; intellectual.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7. Characterized by or exhibiting a high degree of refinement of thought or feeling. (Cf. spirituel adj.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8. Clever, smart, witty. (Cf. spirituel adj.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9. a. Concerned with spirits or supernatural beings.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. = spiritualistic adj. 2. spiritual funeral, one conducted after the fashion of the believers in Spiritualism (Bartlett).[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] II. †10. Of or relating to breathing; respiratory. Obs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]B.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] n.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I. †1. a. collect. The spirituality; the clergy. Obs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]†b. An ecclesiastic or cleric. Obs.—1[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2. a. A spiritual or spiritually-minded person.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. Church Hist. (With initial capital.) A member of the Congregation of Narbonne, a branch of Franciscans which advocated a stricter observance of the rule of poverty and simplicity of dress.The branch was pronounced schismatic by Pope John XXII in 1318.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. An inhabitant of the ‘spiritual kingdom’.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]d. U.S. A spiritual wife (see A. 3a).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3. a. pl. Spiritual matters, affairs, or ideas.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. Matters which specially or primarily concern the church or religion.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. Spiritual or ecclesiastical goods or possessions; spiritualities.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4. a. A spiritual counterpart or analogue.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. A spiritual (as opposed to a material) thing.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. Spiritual quality or power; pl. spiritual faculties.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5. = Negro spiritual n. at Negro n. and adj. Compounds 3.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] II. †6. pl. The respiratory organs. Obs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
I would suggest that your statement "the quest for meaning in life ... is merely a rational way of finding and delineating one's purpose" would qualify as "spiritual" in the sense of A.I.6 and 7. And perhaps sense 8, if your apparent anger didn't suggest otherwise.

That you find statements about A.I.1 through 5, and 9, (and apparently B.I.1 through 5; sense II in both seem irrelevant to the discussion) as "fluffy crap" is of course your own opinion, and you are welcome to it. To some extent, I even agree. But the point of my response was that 1) while you find these other definitions to be "fluffy crap," others do not, and 2) that your implied generalization that because age has led you to identify it as "fluffy crap," everyone who is your age or older should embrace your position is faulty reasoning.

The question posed in the OP is whether or not atheists can be spiritual: based on the clear definition provided by the OED, I'd say the answer is "Yes, if you take the sense of A.I.6 and 7, and perhaps 8, and No if you try to shoehorn atheists into any of the other usages."

 

[Simurgh]

Am I the only person here who ever looks at a dictionary? .........................The question posed in the OP is whether or not atheists can be spiritual: based on the clear definition provided by the OED, I'd say the answer is &quot;Yes, if you take the sense of A.I.6 and 7, and perhaps 8, and No if you try to shoehorn atheists into any of the other usages.

First off, those who wrote the dictionary were deists--at the very least it seems--who defined the terms the only way they knew how, in xtian terms. Why do you assume that this topic makes me angry? Is it because you are projection your angst onto me? I merely stated that all this talk about spirituality is mostly about &#8220;fluffy crap&#8221; that people usually cannot even define any better than saying &#8220;spirituality, you know??&#8221;. So, no it does not make me angry at all, I find it entertaining; especially since you thought it necessary to post the dictionary definition out.

After all, it seems you sort of skipped the part where I I mentioned that it was I who was of MY opinion and I did not at any time state or insinuate that MY opinion was in any way shape or form including others. Yet you act as if I am talking about everyone who does not share YOUR opinion. That is assuming a bit much and looks more like the musings of an angry man to me than any of my statements to this effect.

It might be that no-one beside you dragged the dictionary into this fray because people here wanted to know how others feel about this topic rather than completing an exercise in semiotics to arrive at a particular meaning. So my statements are made in that sense and as a part of an ongoing conversation. If that does not fit with your notion of what I ought to think, oh well. As you stated, those are my opinions and no, they need not align with yours.

Thanks for going to all that trouble to post the dictionary, but it really is not necessary since the original question was not which definition of the dictionary do you want to fit your opinion into. If I as an atheist do not think that I personally have the need for spirituality than that answer ought to stand, dictionary and you notwithstanding. And do not ascribe the emotion of anger to someone you do not know, just because we are of different opinions. I reserve my anger for things that matter. Just stick to your dictionary definition of life and more power to you.

 

[Wu Wei]

Psychology Today - Spirituality

Spirituality

Spirituality means something different to everyone. For some, it's about participating in organized religion: going to church, synagogue, a mosque, etc. For others, it's more personal: Some people get in touch with their spiritual side through private prayer, yoga, meditation, quiet reflection, or even long walks.

Research shows that even skeptics can't stifle the sense that there is something greater than the concrete world we see. As the brain processes sensory experiences, we naturally look for patterns, and then seek out meaning in those patterns. And the phenomenon known as "cognitive dissonance" shows that once we believe in something, we will try to explain away anything that conflicts with it.

Humans can't help but ask big questions—the instinct seems wired in our minds.

Embracing Genuine Spirituality

Authentic spirituality empowers us as torchbearers to bring the Light of the Spirit into darkness and retain direction and truth in the face of confusion. Spiritual power emerges from embracing our soul and taking ownership of the power within. However, we live at a time when people do not know, let alone nurture, their spiritual life and nature but also remain unaware of their soul or deny its existence entirely.

Alive Inside!

Discovering our path entails distinguishing between authentic and inauthentic expressions of religiosity and spirituality. Consider the following comparisons of authentic and inauthentic religiosity and spirituality to assess the quality of your religious and spiritual process:

Religion & Spirituality: The Well Is Not the Water

It is important not to mistake the well for the water. They are not the same. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and other world faiths offer wisdom in various time-honoured guises – stories and guidance, rituals and recommendations – aimed at linking people, as individuals, with a transcendent, spiritual reality. What we seek is a way of linking a sparkle eternally present deep within us to that which is unified and universal, to that which many would call divine.

And a question: Is Spirituality the same as Spiritualism?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

First off, those who wrote the dictionary were deists--at the very least it seems--who defined the terms the only way they knew how, in xtian terms. Why do you assume that this topic makes me angry? Is it because you are projection your angst onto me? I merely stated that all this talk about spirituality is mostly about “fluffy crap” that people usually cannot even define any better than saying “spirituality, you know??”. So, no it does not make me angry at all, I find it entertaining; especially since you thought it necessary to post the dictionary definition out.

After all, it seems you sort of skipped the part where I I mentioned that it was I who was of MY opinion and I did not at any time state or insinuate that MY opinion was in any way shape or form including others. Yet you act as if I am talking about everyone who does not share YOUR opinion. That is assuming a bit much and looks more like the musings of an angry man to me than any of my statements to this effect.

It might be that no-one beside you dragged the dictionary into this fray because people here wanted to know how others feel about this topic rather than completing an exercise in semiotics to arrive at a particular meaning. So my statements are made in that sense and as a part of an ongoing conversation. If that does not fit with your notion of what I ought to think, oh well. As you stated, those are my opinions and no, they need not align with yours.

Thanks for going to all that trouble to post the dictionary, but it really is not necessary since the original question was not which definition of the dictionary do you want to fit your opinion into. If I as an atheist do not think that I personally have the need for spirituality than that answer ought to stand, dictionary and you notwithstanding. And do not ascribe the emotion of anger to someone you do not know, just because we are of different opinions. I reserve my anger for things that matter. Just stick to your dictionary definition of life and more power to you.

You obviously don't understand what a dictionary is or what it does, if that's what you think about the authors of dictionaries. They are above all intellectuals who try to identify how words are used, so that people can be clear in selecting the terms they use when trying to communicate with others, and turn to the dictionary to resolve disputes over the meaning of terms. Their definitions are not based much on their religious tendencies, but on the frequency and usage of words throughout English literature. OED goes further in using the earliest examples of usage to help organize the definitions. If you don't start a discussion of what a term means without reference to the common usages, you're just going to engage in pointless, circling debates that don't resolve anything. Reason requires one to carefully define terms in making any argument.

So, the OP wanted to know what people thought about using the term spiritual in regard to atheists. You obviously think it unnecessary, regardless of the dictionary definition. I think it can be used--based on accepted common usage in the English Language--whether or not it is useful is a matter of preference or opinion: MY opinion is that it's up to the user. Still others on this thread have asked for a definition, ANY definition: you have provided none ("fluffy crap" does not count, IMO), but I have provided two: my own interpretation, and the OED's.

If you don't want to accept the common usages of the English language, then how about you provide a definition for consideration by others? There are plenty of usages where philosophers and theologists, and yes, atheists, have given very clear and precise definitions of what spirituality is and what it is not in the course of developing their cases for or against religion, deity, faith, and spirituality. Almost all of these will fall into the identified usages from the OED or any other dictionary as specific examples of the definitions.

Are any of the posts in this thread helping the OP, Satori8, to get an answer to their question? I don't know, but I would hope so.

 

[Simurgh]

You obviously don't understand what a dictionary is or what it does, ..................
Are any of the posts in this thread helping the OP, Satori8, to get an answer to their question? I don't know, but I would hope so.

so you do the usual, assume too much, generalize to a point where it gets trivial and assume that you have all the answers because you read a dictionary.

Yep, the answers to all the important things in life can be found in your dictionary. Good for you, the OP should have just read the dictionary and could have saved the time asking people their opinions. See, you managed to solve all the problems of hte world with the dictionary. Congrats.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

so you do the usual, assume too much, generalize to a point where it gets trivial and assume that you have all the answers because you read a dictionary.

Yep, the answers to all the important things in life can be found in your dictionary. Good for you, the OP should have just read the dictionary and could have saved the time asking people their opinions. See, you managed to solve all the problems of hte world with the dictionary. Congrats.

And we learn so much more by asking people to express opinions without explaining what they mean by such clear and insightful terms as "fluffy crap."

 

[Simurgh]

And we learn so much more by asking people to express opinions without explaining what they mean by such clear and insightful terms as "fluffy crap."

don't you make a mountain out of a molehill with that? i am as entitled to my opinion as you are to your pontification. let it go, as it will remain fluffy crap to me and an exercise in self-righteous dictionary pounding to you. either way, it is not a spiritual undertaking according to your definition of the word.

 

[EyeofOdin]

It is of my opinion that any person can have spiritualty, regardless of religion (or lack there of). Spirituality is defined in many ways by many peoples; connection to Jesus, connection to yourself, connection to the gods, connection to your ancestors. I think the key pattern here is connection. When you have the sense that everything is connected and you try to strengthen that bond with that connectivness, you are spiritual.

I'm a Germanic polytheist, and to me, the world is divided into three, then nine parts. The upper, middle, and lower worlds. Then these are divided into nine other parts (I won't go into detail about the full nine realms). The upper world represents humanity and the divine, the middle represents nature and the lower represents the ancestors and the primal self. When you are in sync with humanity (or the divine, God, Spirit, The Universe, whatever you want to call it as an atheist), Nature and The Ancestors, this is spirituality.

These sects of the universe also reflect time: past, present and future. Past being the lower worlds, present being the middle realms etc. I also believe that when you, as an Atheist, Christian or Heathen, have full capacity to live in the present, understand the past and remember for the future, this strengthens your spirituality.

Spirituality, IMO, isn't about God or religion. It's about connection and balance.

 

[The Bullfrog]

A spiritual "path"?

Hmmm. This concept would entail the notion that some "path" existed.

But let's be fair...at least in one idea...that "spirituality" at least acknowledges that "existence" is a personal matter. Not just for ourselves mind you, but that anything and everything (whether cognizant or self-aware in and of themselves) is indeed "finite".

Trees, insects, even bacteria...by any and all available facts gleaned today...are both finite and ultimately cease to "exist". Even comets, stars, solar systems, galaxies.

One day, sooner or later, *poof*.

Unless you have some new and extraordinary evidences to suggest that "existence" itself follows a "path" or manifestly ordained/directed course of events/circumstances to either be met or followed.. again, from what can be observed/recorded..."existence" just "IS".

At least we retain the concurrent capacities of reason and experiment to wonder upon the essence or "path" of non-existence.

For more than 14 billion years, you were, in matter of fact, non-existent.

Did it hurt?
Did you feel deprived?
Unfairly treated?
By what, or whom, for getting such a late start on things?

I am "spiritual" in the sense that I am self-aware of the concepts of non-existence, and I am not bored with "existence" just yet

Inevitability does not preclude one's own claimed sense of purpose within current existence. Nor are any promises of an alternative outcome offered by any means of mysticism, religion, or life-time magazine subscriptions.

The cosmos will end, many billions of years from now, and you are gonna miss out on the last edition.

Figure it out.

I exist now, the thought that I didn't exist before and that I won't exist later does not change that I exist now. The fact that the cosmos will end does not seem relevant to me. Since most likely I'll be long gone before that comes about. Blowing things up to a "cosmic" scales not always make perception clearer, sometimes it only muddles it. Nothing you have posted seems relevant to my spiritual path. I am not all of existence, I am only a single human.

 

[littleoldme]

I was wondering for atheists if they can be spiritual?

depends on the definition of spiritual...
as a musician I equate that with emotional

However, some atheists I have spoken to, felt being in awe with the universe was spiritual, though they do not believe in God. But is it possible for an atheist to be spiritual, or on a spiritual path at all? Or is it not much of a concern? Thanks.

again I can look up at the midnight sky and gaze at the stars and get emotional for sure...I feel wonder and awe...

is that what you mean by spiritual?

 

[zenzero]

Friend satori,

Can atheists be spiritual?

Please understand that 'Atheism' is: according to wiki:

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[3][4][5] Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.[4][5][6][7] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[8][9] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[9][10]

In such a sense personally am an atheist but am spiritual.
does it answer your question?

Love & rgds