Can Atheists Call Life A Miracle?

[Jimmy]

What about you, do you think this stuff is no good?

Pretty much. Church and state shouldn’t mix.

 

[MonkeyFire]

If there were a messiah, and I don’t know why there wouldn’t be, it would be a miracle to save mankind, and deliver us into bliss. God can save!

 

[Mock Turtle]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

With the existence of so many parasites and predators (plus whatever else) - and not the pretty picture of life seen at a glance - I suspect the word miracle would be somewhat devalued when one does actually have a closer look at life - and mostly made possible by science of course.

 

[HonestJoe]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

It depends on exactly what you mean by the word. Miracle can obviously be used in figurative or rhetorical contexts that obviously aren't meant to be taken literally.

Taken literally, the word essentially means "Something that can't happen but has happened" which is obviously logically impossible. The implication is that there is something capable of breaking or circumventing some predefined set of fundamental rules of existence. I would argue that would just mean that the rules aren't as definitive as initially thought (or are simply wrong), and the exception is just part of it. That would mean something using the exception isn't any more "miraculous" than something following the core rule.

There are plenty of perfectly mundane examples of physical laws we once thought were definitive but that exceptions were subsequently found for. That doesn't make the exceptions "miracles" though, just that the laws need refining or replacing. Even beyond the mundane, it wouldn't need to be a god who could demonstrate the gaps in the rules of existence as we currently understand them.

So, I wouldn't describe all of existence as a miracle even if I did believe a god (yours or any other) was responsible for it. In fact, if an all-powerful deity could simply bring it in to existence without a second thought, would doing so even be figuratively miraculous.

 

[PureX]

Well I think most atheists view all of existence as having always been here.

Maybe, but that would be quite illogical in that nothing known to exist is doing so eternally.

 

[firedragon]

Life is a sequence of events beginning with the BB (or whatever), made possible by entropy and continued by evolution.
Miracle... No,
But glad it happened

BB and evolution. You have no clue how the BB took place or abiogenesis took place. no idea. No proof. No evidence. No theory.

But of course you ignore them altogether. No choice.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why single out entropy from all of the many
physical laws? I vote for giving gravity a lot
of credit.

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is the only law in all of physics which distinguishes the future from the past. All the other laws, at least in classical physics, are time symmetrical.

That’s what gives entropy it’s metaphysical significance.

 

[Revoltingest]

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is the only law in all of physics which distinguishes the future from the past. All the other laws, at least in classical physics, are time symmetrical.

That’s what gives entropy it’s metaphysical significance.

It's not significant to just life.
It's how the universe works.
Life is merely part of the universe.

 

[ppp]

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is the only law in all of physics which distinguishes the future from the past. All the other laws, at least in classical physics, are time symmetrical.

That’s what gives entropy it’s metaphysical significance.

It's been a while, but I thought that wave function collapse is also asymmetrical.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's not significant to just life.
It's how the universe works.
Life is merely part of the universe.

If the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics truly describes how the universe works, then when the universe reaches thermal equilibrium, it will quite literally be the end of time.

 

[Jimmy]

It depends on exactly what you mean by the word. Miracle can obviously be used in figurative or rhetorical contexts that obviously aren't meant to be taken literally.

Taken literally, the word essentially means "Something that can't happen but has happened" which is obviously logically impossible. The implication is that there is something capable of breaking or circumventing some predefined set of fundamental rules of existence. I would argue that would just mean that the rules aren't as definitive as initially thought (or are simply wrong), and the exception is just part of it. That would mean something using the exception isn't any more "miraculous" than something following the core rule.

There are plenty of perfectly mundane examples of physical laws we once thought were definitive but that exceptions were subsequently found for. That doesn't make the exceptions "miracles" though, just that the laws need refining or replacing. Even beyond the mundane, it wouldn't need to be a god who could demonstrate the gaps in the rules of existence as we currently understand them.

So, I wouldn't describe all of existence as a miracle even if I did believe a god (yours or any other) was responsible for it. In fact, if an all-powerful deity could simply bring it in to existence without a second thought, would doing so even be figuratively miraculous.

Something following the “ core rule” is a wondrous miracle too.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's been a while, but I thought that wave function collapse is also asymmetrical.

Not sure tbh. I imagine Schrodinger’s equation works the same backwards as in time as it does forwards, but perhaps not. Feynman said no one understands quantum mechanics; I certainly don’t.

 

[Revoltingest]

If the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics truly describes how the universe works, then when the universe reaches thermal equilibrium, it will quite literally be the end of time.

The term is "heat death".

 

[HonestJoe]

Something following the “ core rule” is a wondrous miracle too.

What definition of the word "miracle" are you using here? If everything is a miracle, what's the point of the word at all?

 

[Jimmy]

What definition of the word "miracle" are you using here? If everything is a miracle, what's the point of the word at all?

Never mind

 

[McBell]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

miracle​

• a highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment that brings very welcome consequences.
• an amazing product or achievement, or an outstanding example of something.

Your argument only works if you think that God has to be involved for something to be a miracle.
Since the above shows that God is not required for something to be a miracle

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

It is my understanding that whenever someone calls something a "miracle", what they really mean is that they have no understanding of how it occurred or could occur.

At other times, it is just a figure of speech. To note something with very low probability which has a positive outcome.
While things with equally low, or even lower, probability which has a negative outcome, is called just "bad luck".

In short, whenever things are called a miracle (in the literal supernatural sense), it generally just appeals to ignorance and / or incredulity.
It has very little meaning and below zero explanatory power.

Things tend to be miraculous only until real explanations are given.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well I think most atheists view all of existence as having always been here.

Technically, that is a true statement though.

Always = for all of time.
Time is an integral part of the universe. Aka, the space-time continuum.

So for all of time, a universe existed. If the universe is a coin, then one side is space and the other is time.
In our current understanding of the universe, you can't have time without the expanding universe and vice versa.

Take all of history / all of time. Pick any point in time. Did the universe exist then? Answer: yes.
For all of time, the universe existed.

At no point in time in history, did the universe NOT exist.

Hence, the universe has always exists (where always = all of time)

 

[RestlessSoul]

It is my understanding that whenever someone calls something a "miracle", what they really mean is that they have no understanding of how it occurred or could occur.

At other times, it is just a figure of speech. To note something with very low probability which has a positive outcome.
While things with equally low, or even lower, probability which has a negative outcome, is called just "bad luck".

In short, whenever things are called a miracle (in the literal supernatural sense), it generally just appeals to ignorance and / or incredulity.
It has very little meaning and below zero explanatory power.

Things tend to be miraculous only until real explanations are given.

See the definition offered in the post above yours

 

[Viker]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

Words like amazing, incredible or outstanding could suffice in place of "miracle". Miracle may still imply something like divine intervention.