Can Atheists Call Life A Miracle?

[wellwisher]

Why single out entropy from all of the many
physical laws? I vote for giving gravity a lot
of credit.

Water will seek its own level due to gravity, but entropy has to increase, and never reaches steady state in open systems. It the perfect drive for the increasing complexity of life and consciousness we call evolution, as well as the propagation of the universe. Osmosis and osmotic pressure is an entropy based way to defy and counter gravity. Gravity tends to lower entropy adding entropic potential. If we compress a gas into a liquid with pressure due to gravity, the entropy lowers against the 2nd law, due to work by gravity. Since entropy has to increase, this will not become the final state, since something has to give, via entropy and the 2nd law.

What is interesting is entropy is not well characterized by science in terms of its underlying cause(s). It is still in the black box. We know it has to increase, but why? We know gravity and photons well enough; open box, but entropy is still sort of a mystery. Science is not as comfortable with entropy, since it has not been fully detached from the imagination, but remains closer to religion, being the miracle maker it is; life.

I am perfectly comfortable with entropy, since its impact is provable. We also know it is a state variable, with any given state of matter, defining a constant entropy. When there is temperature, entropy times temperature equals free energy. Temperature is more like a statistical average of a wide range of particle motion, which is often confused as entropy. Entropy is a constant for any given state, with the average of all that dynamic complexity from temperature adding to constant entropy. Entropy is like a finger print of a state of matter. These finger prints can quantum step upward; evolve new species.

The second law of thermodynamics may be formulated by the observation that the entropy of isolated systems left to spontaneous evolution cannot decrease, as they always tend toward a state of thermodynamic equilibrium where the entropy is highest at the given internal energy.

We know that, but why?

My explanation goes back to before the Big Bang, and before space-time appears at time=0. That far back, space and time were not yet connected, but rather both space and time acted as independent variables. This independence can be proven with the experiments of Heisenberg, where the position and momentum of electrons and photons could not be simultaneously measured, since space and time were acting like they were not fully connected as space-time, but displayed independence, as a reverse relationship.

If one could move in space without time, you could be omnipresent. Orbital electrons sort of do this in their little zone of space; probability function. At that realm of existence, there was no energy, since energy as photons, are the merger of wavelength (space) and frequency (time), which has a connection to merged space-time, which was not yet in effect. With space and time still independent there were no photons, just wavelength without frequency and frequency without wavelengths, but no substance as we know it; void. Energy would appear from what appears to be nothingness, based on some of the independent space and time, merging into space-time. Our finite space-time universe is still immersed in a sea of independent space and time, like an ice cube floating in a bucket of water.

Entropy and the 2nd law, is the impact of separated space and time, interacting with merged but finite space-time. As separated space and time, there are endless possibilities and therefore maximum complexity or entropy is infinite. This creates a positive effect on space-time; 2nd law, so change is inevitable, as we progress back the realm of infinite complexity.

If you could move in time apart from space, we could synchronize our space-time universe, so the laws of Physics are the same in all space-time references, which was postulate by Einstein.

The human brain and imagination; formal lobe, appears to be able to process separated space and time. The imagination can process information in ways that are not connected to space-time, but are more fictional and/or anticipatory. Applied science creates new things that would not have naturally evolved, by just the laws of physics within space-time. The iPhone would never have appeared naturally, but rather it required consciousness temporarily leaving tangible reality, within the mind via separated space and time, and then gradually returning; R&D, with a new unnatural thing that becomes newly attached to space-time. By being immersed within separated space and time, there are always new surprises in space-time, by nature and by consciousness. Universal consciousness would independent space and time.

 

[Revoltingest]

Water will seek its own level due to gravity, but entropy has to increase, and never reaches steady state in open systems.

Incorrect. Many open systems reach a
"steady state", ie, stable entropy value,
eg, heat engines.

It the perfect drive for the increasing complexity of life and consciousness we call evolution, as well as the propagation of the universe.

"Complexity" has different meanings in
contexts of life & thermodynamics.

Osmosis and osmotic pressure is an entropy based way to defy and counter gravity. Gravity tends to lower entropy adding entropic potential. If we compress a gas into a liquid with pressure due to gravity, the entropy lowers against the 2nd law, due to work by gravity. Since entropy has to increase, this will not become the final state, since something has to give, via entropy and the 2nd law.

What is interesting is entropy is not well characterized by science in terms of its underlying cause(s). It is still in the black box. We know it has to increase, but why? We know gravity and photons well enough; open box, but entropy is still sort of a mystery. Science is not as comfortable with entropy, since it has not been fully detached from the imagination, but remains closer to religion, being the miracle maker it is; life.

I am perfectly comfortable with entropy, since its impact is provable. We also know it is a state variable, with any given state of matter, defining a constant entropy. When there is temperature, entropy times temperature equals free energy. Temperature is more like a statistical average of a wide range of particle motion, which is often confused as entropy. Entropy is a constant for any given state, with the average of all that dynamic complexity from temperature adding to constant entropy. Entropy is like a finger print of a state of matter. These finger prints can quantum step upward; evolve new species.



We know that, but why?

My explanation goes back to before the Big Bang, and before space-time appears at time=0. That far back, space and time were not yet connected, but rather both space and time acted as independent variables. This independence can be proven with the experiments of Heisenberg, where the position and momentum of electrons and photons could not be simultaneously measured, since space and time were acting like they were not fully connected as space-time, but displayed independence, as a reverse relationship.

If one could move in space without time, you could be omnipresent. Orbital electrons sort of do this in their little zone of space; probability function. At that realm of existence, there was no energy, since energy as photons, are the merger of wavelength (space) and frequency (time), which has a connection to merged space-time, which was not yet in effect. With space and time still independent there were no photons, just wavelength without frequency and frequency without wavelengths, but no substance as we know it; void. Energy would appear from what appears to be nothingness, based on some of the independent space and time, merging into space-time. Our finite space-time universe is still immersed in a sea of independent space and time, like an ice cube floating in a bucket of water.

Entropy and the 2nd law, is the impact of separated space and time, interacting with merged but finite space-time. As separated space and time, there are endless possibilities and therefore maximum complexity or entropy is infinite. This creates a positive effect on space-time; 2nd law, so change is inevitable, as we progress back the realm of infinite complexity.

If you could move in time apart from space, we could synchronize our space-time universe, so the laws of Physics are the same in all space-time references, which was postulate by Einstein.

The human brain and imagination; formal lobe, appears to be able to process separated space and time. The imagination can process information in ways that are not connected to space-time, but are more fictional and/or anticipatory. Applied science creates new things that would not have naturally evolved, by just the laws of physics within space-time. The iPhone would never have appeared naturally, but rather it required consciousness temporarily leaving tangible reality, within the mind via separated space and time, and then gradually returning; R&D, with a new unnatural thing that becomes newly attached to space-time. By being immersed within separated space and time, there are always new surprises in space-time, by nature and by consciousness. Universal consciousness would independent space and time.

That's a lot to read.
I lack the patience.
I recommend taking a course in thermodynamics.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

See the definition offered in the post above yours

What about it?

 

[blü 2]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle.

Then the existence of the miracle-worker would be itself a miracle, no? ─ one performed by an earlier miracle worker. And the existence of this 2nd miracle-worker would itself be a miracle, no? ─ one performed by a still earlier miracle worker. And the existence of this 3rd miracle-worker would itself be a miracle, no? And ....

Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it?

You'd need to believe in magic. Magic is the alteration of reality independently of the rules of reality, and a miracle is magic performed by a god. But if you thought, say, Gandalf was equal to the task, you could make do without a god.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Personally, I believe all of existence is a miracle. Is it possible for one to believe this if they don’t think a God is responsible for it? Id have to say no. I think that persons description of all of existence would come from a science book. They may say life is great but they couldn’t call it a miracle.

It all depends what you mean by miracle. If you are referring to an event that defies the laws of nature, you are correct, atheists don't claim those sorts of miracles.

But often times the word miracle is used to refer to things that are extremely rare and wonderful, or which give us a sense of awe that is beyond words. For example, when a stage four cancer patient goes into remission, or when a baby is born.