Can Atheists Imagine?

[Autodidact]

We have not been attacked on our soil since before we went to Iraq, so you just made my point.Jesus taught us that you end up dead by being a pacifist.

Really? Where did He say that?

 

[Autodidact]

So let me get this straight, you condem me for not turning the other cheek, but you do not follow the tennants of the Christian religion either?

I have to be perfect while you can choose to not believe anything or choose a designer religion?

We each have the right to believe whatever we choose. The question is, are you being consistent in your beliefs, and honest in describing them?

 

[MaddLlama]

What does Druidism teach about turning the other cheek MaddLlama?

We are expected to demonstrate courage, and to act appropriately in the face of danger.

However, unlike Christianity (which, I believe is your chosen religion, right? I could be wrong..), we have no such edict to "turn the other cheek" when struck.

 

[lilithu]

We have not been attacked on our soil since before we went to Iraq, so you just made my point.

I haven't had a flat tire since I started wearing a new perfume, so I guess that must be the reason.

Jesus taught us that you end up dead by being a pacifist.

Wow... and here I thought that Jesus taught us to love our enemies and the reason why he died was as a voluntary sacrifice to redeem our sins.

So the meaning of Jesus' death is to NOT follow what he said. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

btw, what's so bad about dying for you? won't you just end up in heaven sooner?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I haven't had a flat tire since I started wearing a new perfume, so I guess that must be the reason.

Straw man argument.

Wow... and here I thought that Jesus taught us to love our enemies and the reason why he died was to redeem our sins.

I can love my enemies and defend myself as well. I am not required to be perfect.

So the meaning of Jesus' death is to NOT follow what he said. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

straw man #2

btw, what's so bad about dying for you? won't you end up in heaven sooner?

Are you in a hurry to see me leave?

I am many things.

A Conservative Republican Veteran Minister who has faults just like everyone else.

I have opinions as well. The real issue here is that many of you resent the fact that the country is ran by White Christian Males. Now your biggest desire is for the country to be ran by a White Christian Female.

 

[MaddLlama]

The real issue here is that many of you resent the fact that the country is ran by White Christian Males. Now your biggest desire is for the country to be ran by a White Christian Female.

Strawman #3.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Strawman #3.

So you admit the other two are staw men as well?

 

[Booko]

Jesus taught us that you end up dead by being a pacifist.

Matt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

Matt 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

[lilithu]

Straw man argument.

No, illustrating the illogicalness of your previous reasoning.

I can love my enemies and defend myself as well. I am not required to be perfect.

That is a straw man argument. No one's demanding that you be perfect. They're demanding that you at least show some semblance of trying to live up to the principles taught by your Savior.

straw man #2

No, again illustrating the illogicalness of your reasoning.

Honestly Rick, you should look up what "straw man" means.

Are you in a hurry to see me leave?

I am many things.

A Conservative Republican Veteran Minister who has faults just like everyone else.

I have opinions as well. The real issue here is that many of you resent the fact that the country is ran by White Christian Males. Now your biggest desire is for the country to be ran by a White Christian Female.

That's called an ad hominem, and an absolute non sequitor. Bill Clinton and Al Gore are both white Christian males, as is John Kerry and almost all of the candidates for president. Most people don't have a problem with Christian white males; they have a problem with lying, arrogant, war-mongering, power-hungry, profiteering, corrupt gits who pass themselves off as doing God's will.

 

[Autodidact]

I can love my enemies and defend myself as well. I am not required to be perfect.

So when Jesus said to love your neighbor, he didn't mean not to kill them?

I have opinions as well. The real issue here is that many of you resent the fact that the country is ran by White Christian Males. Now your biggest desire is for the country to be ran by a White Christian Female.

Read minds much? And btw, are you obsessed with politics or something? This is a thread about the definition of "Christian," not about who you support for President.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So when Jesus said to love your neighbor, he didn't mean not to kill them?

Who said anything about killing?

Read minds much? And btw, are you obsessed with politics or something? This is a thread about the definition of "Christian," not about who you support for President.

This is not a thread about the definition of a Christian, I should know, I am the author of the thread. This is a thread for Atheists to imagine.

 

[Smoke]

We all know what happened to Jesus.

That's true. If you followed the teachings of Jesus, you might end up dead, too. But in the end you'll end up dead, anyway -- even though you don't follow the teachings of Jesus. My point is that a person and a movement that explicitly reject the teachings of Jesus are not in any position to bring other people to Jesus.

We are more concerned with your eternal soul than your short time here on earth.

It's interesting that that's such an important principle that you feel justified in denying my civil rights, but it has no applicability in your own life. When it comes to how you treat your enemies, shouldn't you be more concerned with your eternal soul than your short time here on earth?

So let me get this straight, you condem me for not turning the other cheek, but you do not follow the tennants of the Christian religion either?

I don't believe that it's important to bring people to Jesus, that Jesus is God, or that there even is a God, and I'm not at all concerned with eternity, and yet I still have more regard for the moral teachings of Jesus than you do. So why should you appoint yourself to tell me about Jesus?

I don't condemn you for refusing to turn the other cheek; pacifism is a difficult path, and not everybody is up to it. I'm just pointing out that even if it were possible to bring people to Jesus, a person who explicitly rejects the teachings of Jesus is not in any position to do that.

If people who believe that Jesus is God expect me to follow their teachings about homosexuality (not Jesus' teachings, mind you, but their own), it seems only fair to me that they should follow the teachings of Jesus in other areas.

 

[Reverend Rick]

That's true. If you followed the teachings of Jesus, you might end up dead, too. But in the end you'll end up dead, anyway -- even though you don't follow the teachings of Jesus. My point is that a person and a movement that explicitly reject the teachings of Jesus are not in any position to bring other people to Jesus.

There has only been one perfect man on earth. His name was Jesus. To say that because I am not perfect like him, I am not fit to bring anyone to him?

The next assumption you make is that I control the country. I did not start this war on terror, but make no bones about supporting the Presidents decision. If you slapped me, I just may try to turn the other cheek. When I served in the military, I was drafted. So because I support something or am glad we are safer because of a military action the President has made does not make me unfit to bring souls to Christ.

It's interesting that that's such an important principle that you feel justified in denying my civil rights, but it has no applicability in your own life. When it comes to how you treat your enemies, shouldn't you be more concerned with your eternal soul than your short time here on earth?

How have I denied your civil rights? I must be a very powerful man.

I don't believe that it's important to bring people to Jesus, that Jesus is God, or that there even is a God, and I'm not at all concerned with eternity, and yet I still have more regard for the moral teachings of Jesus than you do. So why should you appoint yourself to tell me about Jesus?

I started a thread and asked you to imagine. You decided to read it and what I have done is planted a seed in your mind. Christ will do the rest of the work. If you don't believe it is important to bring people to Jesus, that is your right. It is also my right to evangelize.

I don't condemn you for refusing to turn the other cheek; pacifism is a difficult path, and not everybody is up to it. I'm just pointing out that even if it were possible to bring people to Jesus, a person who explicitly rejects the teachings of Jesus is not in any position to do that.

I may or may not turn the other cheek sir. I am being honest with you. For me to say with out a doubt I would turn the other cheek would be a lie and then in your eyes I would be unfit to serve Christ once again. It does not work that way because all men are sinners and by admitting I might not turn my cheek, I am affirming this fact to you.

If people who believe that Jesus is God expect me to follow their teachings about homosexuality (not Jesus' teachings, mind you, but their own), it seems only fair to me that they should follow the teachings of Jesus in other areas.

OK, now we have brought up Homosexuality. Where in this thread title did you read this was the topic. This is a thread about Atheists.

 

[Smoke]

There has only been one perfect man on earth. His name was Jesus. To say that because I am not perfect like him, I am not fit to bring anyone to him?

You aren't merely imperfect; you explicitly reject the teachings of Jesus. And his teachings, by the way, require you to be perfect.

The next assumption you make is that I control the country.

No, I don't assume that you control the country. However, it's a plain fact that you enthusiastically support actions which are directly contrary to the teachings of Jesus. How can you bring people to Jesus if you haven't even brought yourself to accept him and his teachings?

OK, now we have brought up Homosexuality. Where in this thread title did you read this was the topic. This is a thread about Atheists.

You ask us to imagine the possibility that your beliefs are true. I am suggesting that your religion's irrational and hateful treatment of homosexuals is one reason for rejecting your religion. I also suggested other reasons.

It seems to me that your religion is inconsistent in that it teaches that Jesus is God, but rejects his teachings. It also seems to me that there are religions other than yours that are more conducive to moral living and good behavior, and I gave examples: Unitarianism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism.

It's easy to imagine that your beliefs are true, but I find it impossible to believe, and you seem unable or unwilling to bring forth any evidence that isn't imaginary.

 

[Reverend Rick]

You aren't merely imperfect; you explicitly reject the teachings of Jesus. And his teachings, by the way, require you to be perfect.

I do not reject the teaching of Jesus, we should turn the other cheek. I admit that I am wrong about this and try to do what is right. That is all that is required, putting forth an effort. If you mearly slapped me, I would try and be a good Christian. If you put my family in danger, I would take care of business and repent my sins afterward.

No, I don't assume that you control the country. However, it's a plain fact that you enthusiastically support actions which are directly contrary to the teachings of Jesus. How can you bring people to Jesus if you haven't even brought yourself to accept him and his teachings?

Yes, I support the President. He is not perfect either, but he does look out for the countries best interests.

You ask us to imagine the possibility that your beliefs are true. I am suggesting that your religion's irrational and hateful treatment of homosexuals is one reason for rejecting your religion. I also suggested other reasons.

OK, you insist on talking about homosexuality. I have come to understand from participating in this forum that homosexuality is not a choice. God made you the way you are. You should try and resist your urges, but you are not perfect either. God will understand this and forgive you. I am not sure that Paul has this right about homosexuals, perhaps when we all gather in heaven we can laugh about this misunderstanding.

It seems to me that your religion is inconsistent in that it teaches that Jesus is God, but rejects his teachings. It also seems to me that there are religions other than yours that are more conducive to moral living and good behavior, and I gave examples: Unitarianism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism.

If you find this branch of spirituality more to your liking, you should participate within it. I believe that being spiritual is better than not being spiritual at all and for all I know, God may have manifested himself as another form and you could have found another path to your maker and an afterlife. This is not my belief, but I don't claim to know all things and I could be wrong about this. Believing in something has to be better than not believing in anything at all.

It's easy to imagine that your beliefs are true, but I find it impossible to believe, and you seem unable or unwilling to bring forth any evidence that isn't imaginary.

This is where faith comes into it. If you believe that our existence just happened by chance and not by design, you could be right. When we die, we won't know the difference. Imagine that you are wrong for just a moment however.

 

[Smoke]

Yes, I support the President. He is not perfect either, but he does look out for the countries best interests.

I don't believe that he does, but whether he does or not, he directly defies the teachings of Jesus by his policies, and you support that. You seem to be saying that you accept the teachings of Jesus, but don't believe that it's wise or desirable to put them into practice.

If you find this branch of spirituality more to your liking, you should participate within it.

I believe that some religions are better than others, but that doesn't mean I have any desire to join them.

Believing in something has to be better than not believing in anything at all.

Why?

This is where faith comes into it.

I don't believe that faith is a virtue, and I don't understand why so many people believe that it is.

When we die, we won't know the difference. Imagine that you are wrong for just a moment however.

If I am wrong, it is still possible -- indeed, likely -- that you are wrong, too. Of all the gods in the world, and all the ways of worshiping your particular god, what are the odds that you've picked the right one? Why should I fear the God of the Evangelical Christians more than Zeus or Shiva?

 

[Willamena]

I do not reject the teaching of Jesus, we should turn the other cheek. I admit that I am wrong about this and try to do what is right. That is all that is required, putting forth an effort. If you mearly slapped me, I would try and be a good Christian. If you put my family in danger, I would take care of business and repent my sins afterward.

I've heard this attitude many times before: the idea that it's okay to sin, because you can be forgiven because you're Christian.

 

[lilithu]

Why should I fear the God of the Evangelical Christians more than Zeus or Shiva?

Umm... because neither Zeus nor Shiva has threatened to cast you into hell?

 

[Smoke]

Umm... because neither Zeus nor Shiva has threatened to cast you into hell?

I guess I should have chosen meaner gods as examples.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I've heard this attitude many times before: the idea that it's okay to sin, because you can be forgiven because you're Christian.

That is the point most non-Christians miss. Jesus knows that everyone is a sinner and we all fall short of the grace of God. Our best works are but filthy rags to him. That's why Jesus died on the cross to wipe away our sins.

When the spirit enters your body, you sin less but are still not perfect, not one of us. Just a lustful thought is a sin and is no lesser or greater a sin than killing a person.

We Christians are to try to be more like Jesus, not be exactly like him. If this was the standard to be perfect like he was, we would all burn in hell.

In the old days when a Christian sinned, he had to atone for the sin with a sacrifice. Jesus made this unnecessary with the new covenant.