Can drugs be used for religious experiences?

[Cr0wley]

I have been tempted to try mushrooms on a few occasions now, but not just for the trip. I have read of many shamans using it as a tool for achieving "other-worldly knowlage". Even modern stories of people on mushrooms say that they've never looked at the world the same way again, that they feel more connected to their "higher power" after a good trip.

What are your opinions?

 

[Druidus]

The only drugs I would utilize for the purposes of a spiritual journey would be those used by shamans for the same.

Want my opinion? Get Salvia Divinorum (The Divine Sage). Legal (besides Australia and one other country. Legal in the U.S. and Canada for sure.), and cheaper than mushrooms/marijuana. Used by the Mazatec and other South Americans for centuries, and much better than some other drugs.

You don't smoke it, but you suck on it, in a quid, which goes under your tongue. Some people add some honey, because it's not known for it's taste, but it's twenty times better than anything else, and is unique among such drugs, in that it has a chemical signiture different from any other drug.

Hold on, and I'll get you some links.

 

[Fat Old Sun]

I've done the Peyote Ceremony while visiting some relatives in New Mexico.

The experience is a little different for everyone. It actually confirmed my desire to leave behind religion all together. I did not feel empty as many might suspect by my previous comment. I felt like man has his priorities completely out of order. Nobody here has figured it out yet was the impression it left me with.

How can putting on a tie on sunday morning and throwing 10% of your paycheck in a plate put you above anyone else when you ignore the death and destruction that occurrs every day just because it's not in your back yard? People kill in the name of their god, then claim that they have a right to live themselves. It finally dawned on me at that point, in a frighteningly visual manner, that man is interwoven with his surroundings. By helping everything around us to thrive, we become stronger together. When we sever enough of those threads, we unravel and lose our strength. I also spent a good deal of time talking to a lizard. :bonk:

It did encourage me to find my own way. I think that may be the most valuable lesson learned from it.

 

[Cr0wley]

The only drugs I would utilize for the purposes of a spiritual journey would be those used by shamans for the same.

Want my opinion? Get Salvia Divinorum (The Divine Sage). Legal (besides Australia and one other country. Legal in the U.S. and Canada for sure.), and cheaper than mushrooms/marijuana. Used by the Mazatec and other South Americans for centuries, and much better than some other drugs.

You don't smoke it, but you suck on it, in a quid, which goes under your tongue. Some people add some honey, because it's not known for it's taste, but it's twenty times better than anything else, and is unique among such drugs, in that it has a chemical signiture different from any other drug.

Hold on, and I'll get you some links.

Ooo... Do you know if it's avalible in South Africa? And is it illegal to import if it isn't?

 

[Druidus]

Salvia divinorum is an extraordinary herb used in shamanism, divination, healing, meditation, and the exploration of consciousness.
It should always be used in a thoughtful, intelligent manner, and only by responsible adults that are of sound mind and clear intent.
"The purpose of these sacraments is to purify, and to open the road. When it opens,
it's as clear as the blue sky, and the stars at night are as bright as suns."
—Aurelia Aurora Catarino (Mazatec shaman)

http://www.thevirtualbrowser.com/index.php?url=uggc%2Sjjj.fntrjvfqbz.bet%2Sfnyivnfubc.ugzy

Here, you can buy it at that site, however:

"IMPORTANT! I will not sell Salvia divinorum to minors! Do not place an order unless you are an adult over 18 years of age. Before you place your order, please make a commitment to yourself to use this herb in a responsible, intelligent, and safe manner. Use Salvia divinorum wisely."

So if you are under sixteen , you will need to get someone to buy it for you. It is not illegal to sell it to minors, but the owner of the site wants to keep Salvia legal, and immature teenagers would ruin that. By your posts, I see that you are mature, and by this thread, I see that you are going into this with respnsible, intelligent commitment, and are not looking for a "trip".

You can get a quarter ounce, or seven grams, for fourty dollars (not sure whether American or Canadian). This will be enough for 15-30 uses.

One unique thing about this drug is that as you use it more, you don't become resistant to the effects, but you become sensitized, so less amounts will satisfy you.

http://www.thevirtualbrowser.com/index.php?url=uggc%2Sjjj.fntrjvfqbz.bet%2Shfrefthvqr.ugzy

That is the Salvia Divinorum User's Guide, which you should thoroughly read before using it.


My statement about it's legality before was incorrect. Here:

Salvia divinorum and its active principal, salvinorin A, are legal substances in the United States and most other countries. Australia, Denmark, Belgium, Italy, and South Korea are the only countries that have enacted legislation making possession of Salvia divinorum and/or salvinorin A illegal. In Finland, it is illegal to import Salvia divinorum without a relevant prescription from a doctor. Additional information about Salvia's legal status, and pending legislation that might affect it, is available at: http://sagewisdom.org/new.html.

 

[Druidus]

Ooo... Do you know if it's avalible in South Africa? And is it illegal to import if it isn't?

I'm not sure if it's available there, but it is legal to possess, sell, buy, grow, and import/export Salvia Divinorum in South Africa. I wouldn't trust street Salvia though. If you can buy off of the site I gave you, you are buying actual Mazatec crops, which are harvested each year. Stronger than other varieties as well.

 

[painted wolf]

Some drugs used in the proper way by people who know what they are doing can bring great insight.

Tobacco is a sacred herb, sadly when misused it is eventually fatal. Many medicine plants are the same. I would never reccomend using anything without FULLY knowing what you are getting into.

Eaven shamans never use such things carelessly or for enjoyment... learn from their example. If you don't know, don't touch. :tsk:

wa:do

 

[anami]

Can drugs be used for religious experiences?

**yes.

 

[meogi]

Sure... the chemicals in drugs affect the chemicals in the brain, which is where all our 'religious experiences' come from anyway. But I'm curious as to why you all think an alteration of perception can be more religious than normally perceived phenomona? Why can certain religious experiences be experienced with drugs, and others without? It all just seems to go back to the brain thing, to me...

 

[anami]

But I'm curious as to why you all think an alteration of perception can be more religious than normally perceived phenomona? Why can certain religious experiences be experienced with drugs, and others without? It all just seems to go back to the brain thing, to me...

i think it goes back to the individual experience, as there are no two religious experiences that are the same. Even in regards to one person having two religious experiences with the same pirameters. It is still not going to be the same experience both times. Religious experiences don't do "reruns"

There are NO religious experiences that REQUIRE anything, drugs, fasting, churching, whatever.

no one said to have religious experiences with drugs is better, it was only asked if it occured.

Unless you believe there is standardized religious experice testing.

but that would be another thread.

 

[Petros2]

I have been tempted to try mushrooms on a few occasions now, but not just for the trip. I have read of many shamans using it as a tool for achieving "other-worldly knowlage". Even modern stories of people on mushrooms say that they've never looked at the world the same way again, that they feel more connected to their "higher power" after a good trip.

What are your opinions?

Halucinagens (synthetic and naturally occurring) alter the normal patterns of mind. In some cases they have a somewhat minor effect, at others a more profound effect where 'other worldly' or beyond self experiences can happen. You can take a particular drug one time and it will have one effect and take it another time and have an entirely different effect. There is a great unpredictability about this and certain dangers are potential. It is recommended that if you take such risks you be accompanied by a very grounded guide. Even then, you are running risks in your attempts for a short-cut. The enlightened individuals seem to have not required drugs to become connected to those 'higher states'.

 

[michel]

Sure... the chemicals in drugs affect the chemicals in the brain, which is where all our 'religious experiences' come from anyway. But I'm curious as to why you all think an alteration of perception can be more religious than normally perceived phenomona? Why can certain religious experiences be experienced with drugs, and others without? It all just seems to go back to the brain thing, to me...

I agree - I can't ever imagine myself feeling the need to 'heighten perception' by the use of drugs to aid meditation, and enlightenment - although I must admit to feeling a bit of a hypocrite as I pump myself full of medication everyday.

 

[Saw11_2000]

I don't know, and I'm tending to lean on the no side.

Religion shouldn't give you a right to do what you want. Who's going to stop people from popping acid if they say it's their religion?

Who's going to stop a serial killer if each person he kills is for his religion?

And, also, there was I thing I saw once, 3 guys executed like 50 animals for their "religion". And since it was a religious sacrifice it was "OK"... And you people know I don't like animals, but I mean, enough is enough.

 

[anami]

I don't know, and I'm tending to lean on the no side.

Religion shouldn't give you a right to do what you want. Who's going to stop people from popping acid if they say it's their religion?

Who's going to stop a serial killer if each person he kills is for his religion?

And, also, there was I thing I saw once, 3 guys executed like 50 animals for their "religion". And since it was a religious sacrifice it was "OK"... And you people know I don't like animals, but I mean, enough is enough.

As someone who uses LSD as a part of my "religion" i feel the need to point out the incredible difference between me expanding my own concious awareness and someone mudering people.

Your personal freedoms end when they begin infringing on anothers.

Your comment correlating my actions to killing animals is absurd and insulting, no matter how you feel about animals.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Is using LSD illegal in your country?

I'm not saying people who have done it for hundreds of years etc., I'm saying people who invent a religion to do it.

 

[anami]

Is using LSD illegal in your country?

I'm not saying people who have done it for hundreds of years etc., I'm saying people who invent a religion to do it.

There are laws on the books in states of my country that say when driving an automobile you must have someone sitting on the hood with an orange flag to warn horses.
Our law books are hardly up on common sense and are largely paternalistic. This paternalistic legal system largly contridicts and defuncts itself and is not a good guide for life.

LSD is a spiritual tool not an object of worship, even the LSD church had a higher divinity than lysergic acid.

 

[Saw11_2000]

Laws are laws, it's unfortunate they don't update them more often to become more relevent. Has your religion been using LSD for quite some time?

 

[timpeters]

To give my viewpoint (warning: might offend some theistic people):

I think of both drugs and religion as having the same effect on the human mind: making people's view of reality unclear and irrational. Drugs make you hallucinate; religion makes you see angels. I avoid both of them for the same reason: because my worldview depends on having a clear, objective view of reality.

Personally, I would suggest staying away from drugs, because it messes your head up. But of course, I would also suggest staying away from religion, because it messes your head up just as much. But yeah, I definately think drugs can be used to have a religious experience. If you fry your head with enough drugs, you'll see any god you want to

 

[Alexander]

I'm not entirely sure. I've been pondering this for some time myself.

The thing is, drugs often temporarily alter brain chemistry and open up unused areas in our mind for short periods of time, seeing how we only use 10 percent of our brain's capacity. At least this is what I'm told. This access is unstable and can lead to damage. For that reason I'd be wary.:tsk:

However, for many religions the practice of using these drugs is a serious matter. They are used, responsibly and to great effect. I myself am one eighth Cherokee, and my best friend is one fourth some tribe whos name I constantly find hard to memorize or pronounce. His father and I have talked on this. He is a very active participant in his tribe (even sporting a quite, if I may say so, intimidating mohawk ) and he tells me that he has seen such things used to great effect by members of his tribe.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That Salvia is expensive. Has anyone tried it to know if it works, or if the site is a fraud?