Can Faith Be Rational?

[wellwisher]

Faith can be rational. If you ever did any creative work in any field, you do not know how it will end, when you get your hunch. The hunch is about something nebulous, than can be, but is not yet in existence. The faith begins the process of putting that hunch into reality. Faith is ahead of reason, and is needed bring the hunch to the level of reason, so others can follow without needing as much faith.

If you read any science paper, no scientist does goes into their project with all the answers. They have a theory or hunch and they use faith to push to an anticipated conclusion, that is not fully clear. Faith is often used a part of the sales process, where the conviction from faith builds trust.

When they publish, this is when they make their faith sound rational. Very little if any of the hunches and up and down are included in a formal science paper. This is not part of the way you write science. The audience gets a polished illusion of a fully rational chains of events.

If you read Einstein theory of Relativity, you will see the math and his final ideas but nowhere is all the years of contemplation of hunches and the faith used to keep going. But faith was there from the beginning.

 

[Sunstone]

No, faith can never be rational. Please allow me to explain....

If you define "faith" as "belief in the absence of reason or evidence, then faith can never be rational because for a belief to be rational, it must be warranted. That is, it must be supported by reason and/or evidence.

However, that does NOT mean faith is irrational. That is, there are unwarranted beliefs that nevertheless are not irrational beliefs. Those beliefs are non-rational beliefs, as opposed to irrational beliefs.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Can faith be rational? If so, how? If not, why not?

Atheism is certainly not rational. I know, I did not answer your question.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Can faith be rational?

If by faith, you mean unjustified belief such as religious faith, no. Belief without sufficient evidence is pretty much the definition of irrational, or without reason.

Of course, the word is also used to mean justified belief, such as the belief that the car that you successfully started the last 500 times you tried will probably start the next time as well. That kind of thinking is rational.

Atheism is certainly not rational. I know, I did not answer your question.

Atheism is the only rational position on gods absent sufficient evidence to believe in them. Go ahead and believe in leprechauns and vampires as well. The belief is equally unjustified and irrational. What's the difference between gods, vampires and leprechauns? Or Santa? Or Batman?

Do you know you will wake up tomorrow or do you have faith.

Neither. I have evidence to support the belief that I will probably wake up tomorrow, making that belief rational. It would take faith to believe that I will wake up in a century.

Some people consider faith a poor way to think and have eradicated it from their repertoire. It's a bad idea to believe anything for no reason.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you know you will wake up tomorrow or do you have faith.

I really don't think about it. Probably because I'm good one way or the other.

Do you know you friendship will last or do you have faith.

Everything that has a beginning has an end. I don't need faith to tell me this.

Faith can be very rational when dealing with uncertainties.

How?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I regard faith as trust in belief, and can see faith as being rational in some instances.

My favorite example is when one drives up to a controlled intersection just before a car to one's left arrives. Now, there's no guarantee the driver of the other car is going to grant you the right of way as he should, but you take it on faith (trust) that he will and not T-Bone you as you drive ahead. To me this is a rational use of faith in that not to do so would leave both drivers momentarily stalled wondering what the other is going to do, and perhaps hold up traffic.

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I don't think your example is really about faith. It's about odds and probabilities. If your driver's safety is based in faith, please remind me to never get in a car with you.

If I am approaching a controlled intersection, and I see a car approaching in cross traffic, I can see if the car is slowing down with the intent of stopping. Even if he is slowing, I'm calculating the time it will take him to get to the intersection even if he did change his mind about stopping hit the gas. If he can get to the intersection before I clear it, I don't proceed. I don't trust anyone driving. I'm always calculating distance between vehicles and odd for error (or road rage).

 

[SalixIncendium]

Can be using personal experiences a.k.a anecdotal evidence.

Then it's not faith. It's knowledge based on evidence.

If I taste a food and like it, I don't need faith to tell me that I will like the next bite.

 

[joe1776]

If faith is belief without evidence, what is belief.

I'd say that belief is the acceptance that something is true -- that is acceptance that it's a fact.

Here's a question that has always troubled me. I'll use my own experience as an example: Shortly after my seventh birthday, a priest told me that I should believe in God. Now, if I had done as he suggested, would I be placing my faith in God or in the priest?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Can faith be rational? If so, how? If not, why not?

Its a good question. It depends on how faith is defined. If it means having trust or confidence in someone or something, then definitely. I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. I could provide rationale based on past experiences and scientific analysis...

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you read any science paper, no scientist does goes into their project with all the answers. They have a theory or hunch and they use faith to push to an anticipated conclusion, that is not fully clear.

I don't think you understand what a scientific theory is. I can assure you, it's not a hunch. It's based upon repeated testing and verification in accordance with the scientific method, which consists of systematic observation, measurement, and experimentation, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Atheism is certainly not rational. I know, I did not answer your question.

But kudos on the unwarranted jab at atheism.

 

[Enoch07]

Then it's not faith. It's knowledge based on evidence.

If I taste a food and like it, I don't need faith to tell me that I will like the next bite.

Faith fills in the gaps.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Its a good question. It depends on how faith is defined. If it means having trust or confidence in someone or something, then definitely. I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. I could provide rationale based on past experiences and scientific analysis...

I would say that having knowledge the sun will rise tomorrow (or more accurately, the earth will continue to spin and revolve around a stationary [relative to the solar system] sun) is knowledge based on the scientific method. It's been repeatedly tested, measured, and observed ~365.25 days every year you've been alive. I don't think that's faith unless your defining faith as a scientific theory.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Faith fills in the gaps.

What gaps?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I would say that having knowledge the sun will rise tomorrow (or more accurately, the earth will continue to spin and revolve around a stationary [relative to the solar system] sun) is knowledge based on the scientific method. It's been repeatedly tested, measured, and observed ~365.25 days every year you've been alive. I don't think that's faith unless your defining faith as a scientific theory.

There are of course different meanings to the word faith.

Definition of FAITH

I was using it in the broadest sense of have a strong belief or conviction in something. In that sense we can have faith in others, ourselves... even science. A common use of the word is having faith in God or gods or a particularly belief system. Perhaps that is what you mean?

 

[Enoch07]

What gaps?

Gaps like prophecy yet to be fulfilled. Revelations specifically.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There are of course different meanings to the word faith.

Definition of FAITH

I was using it in the broadest sense of have a strong belief or conviction in something. In that sense we can have faith in others, ourselves... even science. A common use of the word is having faith in God or gods or a particularly belief system. Perhaps that is what you mean?

Nope. I was using in the same sense you were. The sun "rising" has nothing to do with a strong belief or conviction. It will rise based on evidence resulting from repeated measured testing and results, not because of faith. It is known that it will "rise" unless an external force disrupts this cycle.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can faith be rational? If so, how? If not, why not?

Depends what you mean by "faith," IMO.

Trust and loyalty (i.e. faithfulness)? Sure.

Belief without good reason? No.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Depends what you mean by "faith," IMO.

Trust and loyalty (i.e. faithfulness)? Sure.

Belief without good reason? No.

Let's use the Merriam Webster definition @adrian009 linked a couple of posts ago.

 

[Vinayaka]

The trouble with Pascal's wager is the type of god one is talking about. If he's omniscient, he would see your ploy for what it is, a scheme to receive "infinite gains" under false pretenses, and hence not accord your position any value. You're going to Hell whether you don't live as though god exists or just pretend to. Of course, if he's not omniscient and is capable of being fooled then he isn't much more than an uncomprehending, insensitive guardian of the gates of Heaven and Hell whom you'd better suck up to no matter what you believe.

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I had difficulty with Pascal's wager the first time I heard it, as it assumes you can turn belief on or off like some light switch. It also assumes that all belief in God also brings a belief in hell, and it doesn't. I tossed it into File 13 about then.