Can God be Forgiven?

[Nakosis]

Jesus said that God lets his Sun shine on the good and evil and lets his rain fall on the just and unjust. What punishment is that?

Which means what exactly? There's no consequence to being evil or unjust?

 

[Marisa]

Which means what exactly? There's no consequence to being evil or unjust?

I suppose that depends entirely on whether one is god or one is man.

 

[Nakosis]

In my view it's we humans who carry around a mountain of guilt and look to blame either God or Satan or other people... until we see our own responsibility in life and act to ameliorate our guilt or improve the human condition not much progress is going to be made... so look to yourselves..and see what needs do'in!

That's fine, but this is assuming the actuality of the biblical God.

Personally I don't feel guilt. No point in it really. I just here going about life the best I can, helping out folks when I'm capable of doing so. I'm just assuming if there happens to be this biblical God who passes judgment on me I'm still not going to feel guilty.

 

[Marisa]

That's fine, but this is assuming the actuality of the biblical God.

Personally I don't feel guilt. No point in it really. I just here going about life the best I can, helping out folks when I'm capable of doing so. I'm just assuming if there happens to be this biblical God who passes judgment on me I'm still not going to feel guilty.

If you're being the best person that you possibly can be why would you feel guilty? If you're doing the things you say you and some entity, regardless of whether it's merely mortal or supernatural, says that's not good enough, why should you feel guilty for their inability to appreciate your good works?

 

[Nakosis]

Imo, To give credence to this question would demonstrate that one does not truly understand Monotheism.

Fair enough, would you be able to explain my misunderstanding in layman's terms for slow folks like me?

 

[Nakosis]

If you're being the best person that you possibly can be why would you feel guilty? If you're doing the things you say you and some entity, regardless of whether it's merely mortal or supernatural, says that's not good enough, why should you feel guilty for their inability to appreciate your good works?

I'm just saying if I'm doing something wrong, God got to make it a little more obvious what that is. The Bible doesn't portray a particularly benevolent God. A least not a role model as far as moral behavior goes. If you're going to respect God's will you got to respect God. At least see God on a higher moral level.

 

[Marisa]

I'm just saying if I'm doing something wrong, God got to make it a little more obvious what that is. The Bible doesn't portray a particularly benevolent God. A least not a role model as far as moral behavior goes. If you're going to respect God's will you got to respect God. At least see God on a higher moral level.

You're right, the bible doesn't portray a particularly benevolent god, nor a paragon of morality. Why would you want such a being to like you, let alone forgive you for not being like it?

 

[JayJayDee]

There are a lot of misconceptions about what is taught in the Bible.....the churches have a lot to answer for.

Not being allowed to go to the bathroom could be a problem...but it doesn't come from the one who created the need to go there in the first place....we'd all need to wear diapers! Eeeeewwwwwwe....

 

[JayJayDee]

Given that the god of the Bible makes belief in him a prerequisite for admission to eternal bliss and avoidance of eternal torture, his hiddenness from us is morally inexcusable.

Given that this premise is entirely false, it is people's ignorance and propensity to misconstrue what they don't want to believe, that is inexcusable. God is not hidden from those who genuinely seek him, and he does not torture anyone for any time or any reason. Where does the Bible teach eternal bliss? All misconceptions, based on ignorance.

Forget atheists for the moment, and think about the billions of sincere seekers in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. They want to believe in a god and they embrace a god (or even several) . . . but they get the wrong one. This is a straightforward disconfirmation of the Bible teaching "seek and you will find" (Matthew 7:7). Source: "Seeing through Christianity"

Actually it is an exercise of free will. The fact that you can choose for yourself what to believe or not to believe is a freedom most people take for granted. Would you rather God had created us as a mindless robot who could do nothing we were not "programmed" to do? Do you even value your right of choice?

By our choices, we demonstrate to the Creator whether we are the kind of people he wants as citizens in his kingdom.
He gives all men the criteria for qualification as residents under the rule of that kingdom, but he forces no one to do anything against their will. We actually choose our own destiny by the choices we make. That means that our choices have to be informed ones...not based on the ignorant musings of others who tell us what we want to hear.

Things are not what they seem.

 

[Thana]

Fair enough, would you be able to explain my misunderstanding in layman's terms for slow folks like me?

I'm not being condescending, I'm just saying that to a Theist asking if man, who has the intellegence of an ant compared to God, should then forgive Him for what our morality (which is forever changing) dictates to us, even though we can barely comprehend Him, is nonsensical.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm not being condescending, I'm just saying that to a Theist asking if man, who has the intellegence of an ant compared to God, should then forgive Him for what our morality (which is forever changing) dictates to us, even though we can barely comprehend Him, is nonsensical.

Ok, something I'll give some thought to over the weekend.

 

[Awoon]

Which means what exactly? There's no consequence to being evil or unjust?

Nope, God is amoral. It doesn't discriminate against Human lifestyle.
Remember this is the teaching of Jesus according to the Biblical writer.

 

[Nakosis]

Nope, God is amoral. It doesn't discriminate against Human lifestyle.
Remember this is the teaching of Jesus according to the Biblical writer.

This seems a different view from the God of the OT.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm not being condescending, I'm just saying that to a Theist asking if man, who has the intellegence of an ant compared to God, should then forgive Him for what our morality (which is forever changing) dictates to us, even though we can barely comprehend Him, is nonsensical.

In which case us being who we are, No more reason for God to judge us than it would be for man to judge the actions of an ant.

 

[Thana]

In which case us being who we are, No more reason for God to judge us than it would be for man to judge the actions of an ant.

So we have no ability to choose? We can't make 'good' decisions? We can't avoid things?
Ants don't have much choice, Nor do they have much sentience. We do. We can be what God asks us to be, and we can choose not to be what God asks us to be and so I think God can judge us even though we're so far from Him.

 

[Willamena]

Lets assume that the God of the Bible finally reveals himself.

Would you as an atheist forgive God for demanding to be worshiped while at the same time making impossible to verify his existence.

I hate it when people fool me for too long. But, on the other hand, I appreciate a good joke.

Further more assuming you are judged by God and found unworthy because of your lack of faith, so get sent to hell, purgatory or just poofed out of existence. Would you be willing to forgive God?

Would you forgive God for the punishment you must now face?

I doubt I'd have time to even consider the prospect.

(If it's the judgement, I'm dead.)

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Lets assume that the God of the Bible finally reveals himself.

Would you as an atheist forgive God for demanding to be worshiped while at the same time making impossible to verify his existence.

Further more assuming you are judged by God and found unworthy because of your lack of faith, so get sent to hell, purgatory or just poofed out of existence. Would you be willing to forgive God?

Would you forgive God for the punishment you must now face?

Something just doesn't sit right with me in the asking of this question. And I think it has to do with the line of questioning being a very self-centered form of expression. I mean, of course we worry about what happens to our "self", however if God truly manifested and made himself known, it wouldn't matter whether I (or anyone) "forgave" Him or not. I find this idea ridiculous, honestly. He's "all powerful", or at least powerful enough to minimize us to nothing in comparison.

If this event were to come about, and God was then made "real" to me, I might try to plead my case, might try to rationalize with Him, or at least try to get at an understanding of His reasoning on things - but if I wasn't offered that chance, I also understand there would likely be nothing I could do about it. It's not as if I deserve some great amount of mercy or time-spent with an all-powerful being. In other words, I wouldn't pretend I was important enough to said being to warrant any individual attention. We're talking about a being powerful enough to create/destroy the entire universe. It doesn't matter what any of us think/feel/dislike/disapprove of/etc. It just doesn't.

 

[Nakosis]

Something just doesn't sit right with me in the asking of this question. And I think it has to do with the line of questioning being a very self-centered form of expression. I mean, of course we worry about what happens to our "self", however if God truly manifested and made himself known, it wouldn't matter whether I (or anyone) "forgave" Him or not. I find this idea ridiculous, honestly. He's "all powerful", or at least powerful enough to minimize us to nothing in comparison.

If this event were to come about, and God was then made "real" to me, I might try to plead my case, might try to rationalize with Him, or at least try to get at an understanding of His reasoning on things - but if I wasn't offered that chance, I also understand there would likely be nothing I could do about it. It's not as if I deserve some great amount of mercy or time-spent with an all-powerful being. In other words, I wouldn't pretend I was important enough to said being to warrant any individual attention. We're talking about a being powerful enough to create/destroy the entire universe. It doesn't matter what any of us think/feel/dislike/disapprove of/etc. It just doesn't.

I don't see it as being self-important. I see it as being honest. This is who I am. I'm doing the best I can with what I got. How could you expect anything else from me.

I'm not going to plead. This is who I am, if it is not good enough then it is not good enough. If I'm not important to God then I'm not important. Is any of that my fault? Why pretend to be something I'm not in order to seek approval. It'd just be a lie.

 

[Nakosis]

I doubt I'd have time to even consider the prospect.

(If it's the judgement, I'm dead.)

Yes, maybe. I'm assuming you'd have a second of realizing you've been judged and found wanting. It's just a fantasy, but who knows. Maybe God in all his Glory will poof you out of existence without you knowing what hit you or why.

I suppose that'd be humane, but puts a damper on my dramatic exit scene.

 

[Nakosis]

So we have no ability to choose? We can't make 'good' decisions? We can't avoid things?
Ants don't have much choice, Nor do they have much sentience. We do. We can be what God asks us to be, and we can choose not to be what God asks us to be and so I think God can judge us even though we're so far from Him.

You compared our intelligence to ants. Either the simile fits or it doesn't.

Honestly for me, who's asking? Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindu, Buddhist all have there sets of rules. I should trust what one religion or another claims? Unless God comes to you personally, how do you know what God is asking?