From my perspective, she can originate a rock that she is unable to move, but she is not at all likely going to do that or anything similar such as microwave a burrito that’s too hot for her.
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Can God make a rock He can't move?
- Thread starter Tinkerpeach
- Start date
From my perspective, she can originate a rock that she is unable to move, but she is not at all likely going to do that or anything similar such as microwave a burrito that’s too hot for her.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The standard apologist answer is that God would not attempt such a pointless task. But it still does not refute the concept that a omnipotent omniscient being is inherently self contradictory.
Heyo
Veteran Member
The other answer is that god is above human logic.
- Which only makes god illogical.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Can rock make a God it can't he? That's the deeper question.
I understand. The Western view is that God is intrinsically and absolutely omnipotent: God can do literally anything. This indeed gives us a self-contradictory deity because if God is absolutely omnipotent, then he can make a rock that he cannot move. Consequently, if God cannot move that rock, then God is not absolutely omnipotent. Moreover, if it is impossible for this absolutely omnipotent deity to make such a rock, then this deity is not absolutely omnipotent. Fortunately for me, I do not believe in this Western deity.
My perspective as a Hindu—and this is at least my perspective—is that Goddess’s omnipotence is not absolute to where she can supposedly do literally anything including originating a rock that she cannot move. Rather, Goddess is omnipotent in the sense that neither the universe nor anything in it is as equally powerful as her nor more powerful than her. Further, her omnipotence is in relation to the universe and everything in it, not in relation to her being. At the end of the day, if I say that Goddess is omnipotent, I do not mean that she is absolutely omnipotent like the aforementioned Western deity—I mean that she is the most powerful being, especially in the face of the universe and all its parts or inhabitants.
I renounce what I had posted in post #21 in this thread.
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Yes, I believe He could. Then, if He later would want to move it, He could create more power to Him to move it.
Essentially the question is, can God renounce His power. Yes He can, and then He would not be anymore all powerful, obviously. This doesn't mean He is not now all powerful. And no reason to think He should be all powerful after He has renounced the power.
Tinkerpeach
Active Member
Correct, you got the answer.
There are two issues going on in this question. The creation of the rock and the moving of the rock but they are not related.
God can create a rock He can't move by taking away his power to do so. That is the first action.
The second action would be God deciding to move the rock thereby giving Himself the power to do so.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I think that's wrong. The statement assumes that God can create and renounce his power at will, but to renounce one's power, if still within the constraints of logic, they would temporarily cease being omnipotent. In my opinion, anyway.
You can still make the case that God exists outside logic. But if he exists outside logic, to me, in my personal opinion, that then says he is illogical, contradictory, irrational, and/or nonsensical.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I wanted to add...
Still, to be fair and look at things from every angle... there is a way one can argue that a figure of the three-figure Trinity, and not the whole Trinity, might in theory be able to accomplish the task using the help of another figure from the Trinity. It's not something I've completely thought through, however.
Terrible assumption. No such thing as all powerful Gods. Everything has limits. Even the Gods.
Tinkerpeach
Active Member
Well if that is your belief there really is no point in posting on this topic then.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Semantics and word games. The paradox still exists when you word it correctly:
Can god make a stone so heavy that he can never lift it?
Tinkerpeach
Active Member
Well if you choose to ask it like that there is still an answer although a different one.
God is omnipotent meaning He can do anything however that omnipotence is limited by logic which even God has to obey. For instance, He does not have the power to make a circle a square, if He did that then it would no longer be a circle. The Bible is actually filled with limits on God's power.
For instance God is without sin meaning He can't lie. He doesn't choose this it's simply impossible for him to do so.
God cannot be tempted by evil, again, not a choice, but simply not within the realm of logic.
So to specifically answer your question, God couldn't make the rock in the first place. It's not in his nature to make a rock He could never lift. The question would be irrelevant when it comes to the power of God as it's not in the realm of what is logically possible.
Heyo
Veteran Member
A good answer and in accord with Aquinas and the RCC. God is not omnipotent, it is limited by logic.
As I pointed out previously, not everyone adheres to that view. Some people insist on total omnipotence, even at the cost of logic.
I don't see why not. I am a Theist as anyone else . Sorry I'm not some humpty scrunch monotheist turd.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
The obvious answer is the simplest. The question itself is invalid as it involves a contradiction of terms. A rock too heavy for an omnipotent being to lift is such a contradiction, just as "a married bachelor" is a contradiction. It uses two terms that are mutually exclusive. It's possible to construct sentences that describe things that cannot exist. That is a fault of language, not the universe.
Oh, if you try to invoke some kind of "higher" logic, then the answer becomes indeterminate as we don't have access to that logic to examine it.
Oh, if you try to invoke some kind of "higher" logic, then the answer becomes indeterminate as we don't have access to that logic to examine it.
