The NT has various passages about the dangers of a desire for money and advising that money be given given away to help the poor.Yet many self-identified Christians pursue money in all kinds of ways.They claim there is no contradiction in this but is that true or are they simply unwilling to do what Jesus demanded?
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Can Good Christians Be Capitalists?
- Thread starter redpolk
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
No it's fine.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
And what did Jesus demand in reference to capitalism?
No. I think Jesus was very clear about what He expected in terms of wealth. He told the rich man that, in order to be holy, he must sell all that he owns and give it to the poor. Jesus saved many of His harshest words for the rich. Christ's teachings and capitalism are antithetical to each other.
The only conflict between religion and communism is aspects of Marxist theory. But you don't have to be a Marxist to be a communist, as Marxism is just a theory as to how communism might/"is supposed to" come to be.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
No. I think Jesus was very clear about what He expected in terms of wealth. He told the rich man that, in order to be holy, he must sell all that he owns and give it to the poor. Jesus saved many of His harshest words for the rich. Christ's teachings and capitalism are antithetical to each other.
The only conflict between religion and communism is aspects of Marxist theory. But you don't have to be a Marxist to be a communist, as Marxism is just a theory as to how communism might/"is supposed to" come to be.
I think this is just your interpretation of the 'young rich man following Jesus' story. Many of Yeshua's parables centered around those, who through private ownership, were able to employ others.
Except that the account of Jesus talking to the rich man is supposed to have actually happened, and the parables were metaphors. Using a metaphor doesn't mean you approve of the analogies being used in the metaphor. It's like how Christ is King but He's not a king in terms of earthly concepts of royalty. His crown is a crown of thorns, not of jewels and precious metals.
Everything Jesus had to say about material wealth was negative. He Himself was an itinerant teacher Who did not own a home or wealth, instead relying on His friends for food and shelter. To be a Christian is to be like Christ, so that doesn't leave much room for private property and amassing wealth, which is contrary to His message. Christ taught that true treasure is found in Heaven, not on Earth.
"19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Matthew 6:19-21
Christ was crystal clear on this subject. I find it funny and sad how capitalists contort themselves all out of shape to try to explain it away.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Soo...have you given up everything you own to follow this belief?
I'm not at that point yet, unfortunately. But when we die, all that we have is our souls, anyway. So I am learning more and more the meaninglessness of material things. If a group of Christians wanted to actually form a commune, I'd be up for joining. But I should be working towards living an ascetic life.
However, at least I admit that I'm not living up to Christ's standards. So-called "Christians" who are capitalists are completely delusional.
Capitalism and Christian charity aren't mutually exclusive. Our economy can be capitalist, and Christians can become wealthy, but it's what we do with that wealth that makes the difference.
Mickdrew
Member
Many people have a different idea of what a "good Christian" would be, but certainly the teachings of Jesus seem to oppose a system of profit driven capitalism.
Others here have suggested the idea of communism being more in line - but there's nothing to suggest that it must be the state itself that serves the poor and the helpless. A good Christian should be expected to contribute to charity and social work as well.
That and a robust social safety net would likely be enough. It's not exactly following the New Testament to the letter, but it is in keeping with the spirit of Jesus's teachings - which is the most crucial part in my opinion.
Others here have suggested the idea of communism being more in line - but there's nothing to suggest that it must be the state itself that serves the poor and the helpless. A good Christian should be expected to contribute to charity and social work as well.
That and a robust social safety net would likely be enough. It's not exactly following the New Testament to the letter, but it is in keeping with the spirit of Jesus's teachings - which is the most crucial part in my opinion.
It would be ironic to denounce material wealth using our internet connected computers. Material wealth is not in and of itself a bad thing. The problem stems from the self-entitlement that wealth often creates, wherein one develops a disproportionate focus on material things even to the expense of others. Take for instance the absurdity of queuing up for days to be first in line to spend hundreds of dollars on the latest iphone, for at best a marginal benefit over what one already has. Such people do not have their priorities straight, yet alone stop to think of the transient nature of life and the spiritual realities of eternity where no iphone will be of any importance.
The problem is the obsessive desire for more "stuff", and the self-entitlement that such desires create. When we face the judgement seat of God, we are not going to be asked the size of our bank accounts or the model of our phones. But what we have done with our lives for the service of God and our fellow human beings. If we have spent our lives hoarding wealth, then that going to be a hard thing to explain to God.
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Within them parables, the master is God, that is why he refers to him as 'Ego I-Mee (I Am)'.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Within them parables, the master is God, that is why he refers to him as 'Ego I-Mee (I Am)'.
Sounds like selective interpretation gone wild.
Nope, the addition of noticing the usage of Ego I-mee, is only expanding on the original concept most people accept the parables to be implying. The master of the vine yard, the harvest, the field with workers, etc are all referring to that being God....Not that it implies capitalism is right.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Nope, the addition of noticing the usage of Ego I-mee, is only expanding on the original concept most people accept the parables to be implying. The master of the vine yard, the harvest, the field with workers, etc are all referring to that being God....Not that it implies capitalism is right.
Sez you, lol.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Christians are to pursue gainful employment, support their families and their churches, etc. The Bible says the pursuit of riches is self-destructive, a fact borne out by every person who trades work for family and friends. However, the Bible doesn't say to sit at home, jobless, either.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Giving money to the poor is the exact opposite of giving money to the government
“Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners
Yes, there can be danger in being materialistic - 1 Timothy 5:8-10 - but that does Not mean give away your money or else you would also be poor. - 1 Timothy 5:8. ALL able-bodied people are to work - 2 Thessalonians 3:8-10. Even the apostle Paul worked to support his ministry - Acts of the Apostles 18:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:9.
Jesus' illustration about the neighborly good Samaritan shows that we should broaden out in showing love, even to a stranger, showing love on a one-on-one basis to aid someone when he falls on hard times. Jesus never taught building or setting up soup kitchens, etc. in place of the ministry of Matthew 24:14 which is to proclaim world wide God's kingdom - Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:13-14 - as the solution to mankind's problems.
Town Heretic
Temporarily out of order
Money isn't evil and God never said that it was...it is making money an idol, placing it above the obligations God gives us that can make it an evil thing for men, just as gluttony can turn eating into an evil. Were the possession of things and wealth inherently evil God would never have given them as reward and blessing to Job, to the Kings of Israel, etc. So it's mostly a matter of where your heart is and how that will direct your feet, so to speak.
For most, I think wealth blinds and binds them. But it isn't inevitable.
For most, I think wealth blinds and binds them. But it isn't inevitable.
chlotilde
Madame Curie
Communism is surrendering your riches to the government, not to the poor. The parable of the Talents supports a capitalistic attitude. Riches and talents have metaphorical meaning as well as monetary meaning. Now, a lot of people wants Jesus' commandment to feed the poor...to mean...give your money to the government so the government will feed the poor. But I don't think that is what Jesus meant. To think it is the government's job to feed the poor is a bit like "washing your hands of it"...and that rings another scriptural bell of someone who washed their hands of it.