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Can humans truly understand God?
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
PureX
Veteran Member
Whatever 'God' is, it's not going to be contained or controlled by knowledge, and certainly not by human knowledge. So we're going to have to look for other ways of relating to it if we don't want to fall victim to our own intellectual hubris. I am a Taoist in this regard, so I have no expectation or reason to pursue any "god-knowledge". I can, instead, simply pay attention to the divine manifestation that we call 'existence' and align myself with it's 'flow', and the problem solves itself. I feel sadness for those of you who feel you have to chase and chase and chase some dictum of righteousness to attain some connection with 'God'. It must be exhausting! When you can simply let go of all of that unnecessary self-induced frustration and just be what you are (what you exist within the whole of creation to be) and attain/fulfill your place in the divine plan without effort.
But hey, you do you!
But hey, you do you!
firedragon
Veteran Member
As a Muslim, what we know about God are what's in the Qur'an. God is one. God is the necessary being. God does not make children, not is God a child. etc.
These things are generally affirmed by natural theology as well.
That's all we could know.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Are you a Buddhist? Or do you have your own philosophy about Buddhism?
What about it? I don't think such a thing exists. In fact, I'd happily bet that such a thing is impossible.
I also don't think that's what most people refer to when they say "God."
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
It was just a thought that come to my mind
was curious about your answer
Frankly, I can't even get a clear idea of what you're talking about. To me, "energy with consciousness" is as much of a nonsensical mismatch of concepts as, say, "a shade of blue that's good at baseball."It was just a thought that come to my mind
Do you mean creating your reply?
The exact opposite, actually.
Any label used by humans - e.g. "God" - either points to a human concept or nothing at all, so "God" is either contained by human knowledge or the term is meaningless.
Advaita Echad
Member
Being new to this forum, I am not sure I should dive in and try to explain my conception of the divine. But I suppose that is what we are here for...
I see G*d as being nondual. I find this interpretation in the Kabbalah... sort of Panentheistic, but not exactly... it is called Advaita in the Upanishads... and it dovetails with esoteric Taoism... among other philosophies. When the Hebrew Bible says ADONAI ECHAD (the lord is one) it is often taken to mean that there is only one G*d. But this is not actually what the Bible says. Nor is it what the Jewish Mystics taught. The Bible is literally full of talk of "other gods." Many are simply called Baal (master), but there are a great many divinities discussed in the Jewish literature. Why would the 10 commandments have to say not to put other gods before Hashem if there were no other gods to do this with? Why make such a big deal about graven images and idolatry if that was just nonsense? It is taught that these other gods and their worship and idolatry were in fact very real... and as such needed to be avoided. That these beings are not the one G*d is clear. But what is it that distinguishes the mystic Jewish concept of monotheism from other gods?
It is often said in this way. G*d is ONE, without a second. Without a second is the literal translation of Advaita. Jesus put it this way: "Love the lord thy G*d with all your heart and might... and Love thy neighbor as thyself." The second bit is key. He says the 2nd great commandment is "like unto the first." In what way is Hashem being one like loving your neighbors?
It is like loving your own self... because G*d is OMNIPRESENT. Being everywhere, it includes ALL THINGS. This makes each and every one of us a tiny piece of G*d. There is only one Self (big S) and we are all it. We are created in its image and given its attributes. That G*d is OMNISCIENT & OMNIPOTENT are the other 2 traditional aspects. Because such a being knows all of our thoughts before we think them, it can be said to have created them. I.e. all our thoughts are G*d's thoughts for us.
This gets really heady, but it is actually not that hard to grasp for our minds. We can grok it in this way: Every cell in our body is technically us. Certainly all the human cells. No one thinks of the 100 trillion cells that compose them as being foreign or separate. They have no life or existence outside of... us. Similarly, the planet can be considered a single organism. Everything on it... including us... is actually her. (Gaia theory). We are all cells in her body. But it can't stop there. The Solar System includes everything inside of it. Gaia is just one ball. The Galaxy is also one organism. The Universe... The Multiverse as well... and whatever lies beyond that. In the end, it doesn't matter how many dimensions and levels of being there are.... it all folds into ONE.
We are all that. And as such, it is our birthright to wake up to that. We can become keenly aware of this using a variety of esoteric and mystical techniques.
That is about as good as I can do in one pass. There are many wonderful texts that go into much greater detail... but I always saw it like this, even before reading any of them.
I see G*d as being nondual. I find this interpretation in the Kabbalah... sort of Panentheistic, but not exactly... it is called Advaita in the Upanishads... and it dovetails with esoteric Taoism... among other philosophies. When the Hebrew Bible says ADONAI ECHAD (the lord is one) it is often taken to mean that there is only one G*d. But this is not actually what the Bible says. Nor is it what the Jewish Mystics taught. The Bible is literally full of talk of "other gods." Many are simply called Baal (master), but there are a great many divinities discussed in the Jewish literature. Why would the 10 commandments have to say not to put other gods before Hashem if there were no other gods to do this with? Why make such a big deal about graven images and idolatry if that was just nonsense? It is taught that these other gods and their worship and idolatry were in fact very real... and as such needed to be avoided. That these beings are not the one G*d is clear. But what is it that distinguishes the mystic Jewish concept of monotheism from other gods?
It is often said in this way. G*d is ONE, without a second. Without a second is the literal translation of Advaita. Jesus put it this way: "Love the lord thy G*d with all your heart and might... and Love thy neighbor as thyself." The second bit is key. He says the 2nd great commandment is "like unto the first." In what way is Hashem being one like loving your neighbors?
It is like loving your own self... because G*d is OMNIPRESENT. Being everywhere, it includes ALL THINGS. This makes each and every one of us a tiny piece of G*d. There is only one Self (big S) and we are all it. We are created in its image and given its attributes. That G*d is OMNISCIENT & OMNIPOTENT are the other 2 traditional aspects. Because such a being knows all of our thoughts before we think them, it can be said to have created them. I.e. all our thoughts are G*d's thoughts for us.
This gets really heady, but it is actually not that hard to grasp for our minds. We can grok it in this way: Every cell in our body is technically us. Certainly all the human cells. No one thinks of the 100 trillion cells that compose them as being foreign or separate. They have no life or existence outside of... us. Similarly, the planet can be considered a single organism. Everything on it... including us... is actually her. (Gaia theory). We are all cells in her body. But it can't stop there. The Solar System includes everything inside of it. Gaia is just one ball. The Galaxy is also one organism. The Universe... The Multiverse as well... and whatever lies beyond that. In the end, it doesn't matter how many dimensions and levels of being there are.... it all folds into ONE.
We are all that. And as such, it is our birthright to wake up to that. We can become keenly aware of this using a variety of esoteric and mystical techniques.
That is about as good as I can do in one pass. There are many wonderful texts that go into much greater detail... but I always saw it like this, even before reading any of them.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
1 Corinthians 13 comes to mind. Yes and no, and yes we can -
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Thats ok
From what I believe, on the 6th plane of consciousness we need "God" "face to face" and on the 7th experience ourselves as God.
I'd put it as "living in your heart" but, yes, we are all drops in the ocean of God but don't have a complete experience of that reality.
Qwin
Member
"Understand" is far-reaching concept, so I'll presume I know what you mean by 'understand.'
Does humanity even understand cats... Think me not facetious here. I mean, are all cats the same? They may look similar, but any cat-lover can give numerous examples of why each of the little beasts differ. How is it to see the world through cat's eyes; their vision and hearing - largely un-experienced, so largely unknown. Then after that, the children of men. Who understands them? Do their parents? Many don't, and they'll freely admit it. Then there's your spouse, your mother, father? What about yourself?
But a small sample of the panorama of different worlds, even your own little world, at your fingertips, but largely unknown.
Then you ask about God. The answer to your question is obviously, no. If your basic cat isn't understood what chance does someone have of understanding God...
I concede that aspects of that intelligence (often so called), aka God, are made known and argued about, but 'understand' is a big ask. As I said, you're not being precise about what you mean by understand, but I did my best with my presumption of what you meant.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So you believe in something you don't know or understand.
Doesn't sound that wise to me.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Yes, i hold a belief in God, thought the teachings of spiritual scripture i hold faith that what past prophets was teaching us about God is real.
In my own life i investigate experiences i have that has been similar to what scriptures speak about.
But understanding the highest truth about God, no that i have come to realize that i don't do.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Interesting. We are in more agreement about the nature of god(s) than I am with the atheists here. We just don't come to the same conclusion from this insight.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
If God is being then God has qualities of being. Qualities of being are the meanings reflected in the virtues, or they are reflected in vices, or in other modes.
If God is the ultimate reality then maybe God is not being.
I assume God has will and intentions and thus being.
If God has being I cannot see where a being could be everywhere at all times. So it's kinda hard to kick God off the property one lives: 1) God owns it first and foremost 2) Perhaps privacy isn't something any other being can have.
I don't know if it's even tolerable or desirable to be everywhere at all times.
If God is the ultimate reality then maybe God is not being.
I assume God has will and intentions and thus being.
If God has being I cannot see where a being could be everywhere at all times. So it's kinda hard to kick God off the property one lives: 1) God owns it first and foremost 2) Perhaps privacy isn't something any other being can have.
I don't know if it's even tolerable or desirable to be everywhere at all times.
Qwin
Member
you say, you don't realize... "The highest truth about God" I don't know what you mean, by "highest truth."
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
The most pure essence of God, no matter how much study in scriptures, meditation or prayer i have done, i haven't understood God's most pure existence.
My understanding is that humans "see" or understand God at different levels, so when discussing "God" humans can't seem to agree due to being on different level of understanding.