Can Jewish law be fulfilled?

[Harmonious]

That's one answer. . .

It is the only answer, when the question is about JEWISH law.

And it has been explained to you more than once that "fulfilling the law" is not why Christians are no longer under the law.

Christians who didn't start life as Jews were never UNDER Torah law. They only had 7 commandments, those that were given to Noah.

And I won't deign to reference Hebrews, which is a bastion of ignorance at best, and evil drivel at worst. If THAT is where you are getting your information regarding Jewish law, I suggest you get your information about JEWISH law elsewhere.

Such as, the JEWS who actually FOLLOW Jewish law.

 

[smokydot]

It is the only answer, when the question is about JEWISH law.
Christians who didn't start life as Jews were never UNDER Torah law. They only had 7 commandments, those that were given to Noah.
And I won't deign to reference Hebrews, which is a bastion of ignorance at best, and evil drivel at worst.

It is part of the NT which is the basis of Christianity and the authority for what is to be believed.

If THAT is where you are getting your information regarding Jewish law, I suggest you get your information about JEWISH law elsewhere.
Such as, the JEWS who actually FOLLOW Jewish law.

Compliment: a true Pharisee of Jn 7:49 -- "the Pharisees retorted. . .this mob that knows nothing of the law--there is a curse on them."

However, it doesn't matter what the Jewish laws are. . .the Chritian Hebrews were no longer subject to the laws, because they had been set aside with the setting aside of the Levitical priesthood, which was their basis (Heb 7:12).

 

[free spirit]

Adam's sin ISN'T imputed to all men.

In YOUR belief system, all people are born with Original Sin. According to my belief system, we are born as pure as the soul that just came out of heaven. Only our actions in THIS world count against us. Only if we knowingly continue to sin in the way that our parents started, then and only then will we be punished for our sin as well as theirs.

Adam isn't me. I'm sure God forgave Adam his sin many millennia ago.

God is just and merciful. He tempers complete justice with mercy, and forgives us our sins, especially when we ask for forgiveness and don't repeat the sin.

You say that the sin of Adam was not imputed on all of humanity: SO WHY his punishement was imputed on all of humanity, for we all die.

The following is part of an articol that I wrote in my book "the way God told it"
THE BIRTH OF SIN


Many Christians, and many Christian denominations, struggle to define the origin of the original sin for most of us have never considered that when Adam sinned, sin become an integral part of our human character. It is something innate and undetectable. So in order to understand sin and humanity’s fall from grace we must begin where it all started and that is from the first sinner, “Satan” and the sin he committed. We all know that Satan’s sin was to covet the likeness of the Most High God for in Isaiah 14:14 we read: “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”
Adam’s sin was to follow Satan and allow himself to covet the knowledge equal to God, for in Genesis 3:4-6 we read: “And the serpent said to the women, ‘You surely shall not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’ When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, (gratification of the body) and that it was a delight to the eyes, (gratification of the senses) and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, (gratification of the ego) she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.”
Therefore, we should realise that coveting is Satan’s sinful character. Obviously Adam was enticed to follow him in disregard of God’s commandment and by that action Adam made coveting the evil integral part of the human character. It remained the integral undisputed ruler of our lives until the law given to Moses contained the commandment, “You shall not covet,” for we read in Romans 7:7-8: “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the law; for I would not have known about coveting if the law had not said, ‘you shall not covet.’ But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the law sin is dead.”
If you have no COVETS wich is forbitten in the law than you do not belong to the human race.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Methinks the lady doth whine too much. . .because the facts presented here speak for themselves. . .http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314653-post430.html

Each can decide for himself. . .

You openly lied about what I said and accused me of being dishonest because of it. That is poetic hypocrisy.

It's not "whining" to point out that you were fabricating something and attributing it to me.

It is truly puzzling that a person with so little respect for truth claims to have access to it so freely.

 

[Harmonious]

It is part of the NT which is the basis of Christianity and the authority for what is to be believed.

It's sad, that. But that's your reference.

However, it has NO MEANING when referencing WHAT IS JEWISH LAW.

Doesn't matter what the Jewish laws are. . .

It DARN WELL DOES matter. Otherwise, what is the point of answering the OP?

the Chritian Hebrews were no longer subject to them because they had been set aside with the setting aside of the Levitical priesthood, which was their basis (Heb 7:12).

Which is NONSENSE. JEWS are not allowed to stop being Jews. (It doesn't mean that people don't choose to do that, anyway.)

The "Levitical priesthood" was never "set aside" except in the twisted mind of the author of Hebrews, but not in actuality or truth.

If Jews became Christians and decided not to follow Torah law anymore, because the book of Hebrews said so, Paul will have MUCH to answer for in the world to come, and he won't have a happy place there.

If you want to understand some aspects of Christian belief (which is completely uninformed by Torah law and how it operates), feel free to read Hebrews.

If you want to know what Jewish law is, and what Jews feel about the laws that we are fulfilling daily, as a Jew who is living a Torah lifestyle.

 

[Harmonious]

You say that the sin of Adam was not imputed on all of humanity: SO WHY his punishement was imputed on all of humanity, for we all die.

Even if you believe in Jesus, you STILL die, so there is no benefit in believing in Jesus.

If the matter is all about the world to come, Jesus is STILL of no benefit, as God has long since forgiven Adam's sin. Humanity has a reality. Life in this universe has a reality. And that is that all things that live will die.

That isn't a punishment. That is the way it is.

If the ultimate reward and punishment are to be found in the world to come, we still don't need Jesus.

God gave Adam and Eve the wherewithal to be forgiven. Or, are you seriously going to tell me that Adam lived for 930 years, and that in ALL THAT TIME, he had no chance to repent for his sins?

Yes, he wasn't let back into the Garden of Eden. But he prospered. He had Seth, he had a chance to see those children prosper and survive. He ate, he drank, he continued living life with his beloved wife.

I'm sure that he spoke to God many times since his expulsion from the Garden of Eden. And I'm more than sure that he was forgiven for his sins there long before his first year of existence.

But humanity was mortal. Yes, that was Adam's fault. But God's displeasure with humanity because of Adam's sins ended long before he did, I'm sure.

And human mortality doesn't change based on your belief system. Even good Christian women have pain in child birth. Even good Christian men have to earn their bread by the sweat of their brow. And all good Christians still die.

I don't really see how belief in Jesus fixes what you perceive to be Adam's sin.

God has a relationship with all of humanity, and we can overcome the wrong that we do. We have the ability to repent, and God has the capability to forgive us when we do wrong.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Then you''ll understand what I say, following, that your advice to me rgarding types is a formula for what the Bible calls unbelief:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314202-post419.html,

and which appellation you questioned.

Boy you'll tuck tail and run when you're caught in a lie.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Then, in light of your unbelief here regarding types, you''ll understand why I say, (in the following) that your advice to me rgarding types is a formula for what the Bible calls unbelief:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314202-post419.html,

and which appellation you questioned here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314283-post421.html

Word of the day = obstinate.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Verb

S: (v) obstinate (persist stubbornly) "he obstinates himself against all rational arguments"
Adjective

S: (adj) stubborn, obstinate, unregenerate (tenaciously unwilling or marked by tenacious unwillingness to yield)
S: (adj) cussed, obdurate, obstinate, unrepentant (stubbornly persistent in wrongdoing)
S: (adj) contrary, obstinate, perverse, wayward (resistant to guidance or discipline) "Mary Mary quite contrary"; "an obstinate child with a violent temper"; "a perverse mood"; "wayward behavior"

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Word of the day = obstinate.

Indeed - if by "day" you mean "every day."

 

[free spirit]

Even if you believe in Jesus, you STILL die, so there is no benefit in believing in Jesus.

If the matter is all about the world to come, Jesus is STILL of no benefit, as God has long since forgiven Adam's sin. Humanity has a reality. Life in this universe has a reality. And that is that all things that live will die.

That isn't a punishment. That is the way it is.

If the ultimate reward and punishment are to be found in the world to come, we still don't need Jesus.

God gave Adam and Eve the wherewithal to be forgiven. Or, are you seriously going to tell me that Adam lived for 930 years, and that in ALL THAT TIME, he had no chance to repent for his sins?

Yes, he wasn't let back into the Garden of Eden. But he prospered. He had Seth, he had a chance to see those children prosper and survive. He ate, he drank, he continued living life with his beloved wife.

I'm sure that he spoke to God many times since his expulsion from the Garden of Eden. And I'm more than sure that he was forgiven for his sins there long before his first year of existence.

But humanity was mortal. Yes, that was Adam's fault. But God's displeasure with humanity because of Adam's sins ended long before he did, I'm sure.

And human mortality doesn't change based on your belief system. Even good Christian women have pain in child birth. Even good Christian men have to earn their bread by the sweat of their brow. And all good Christians still die.

I don't really see how belief in Jesus fixes what you perceive to be Adam's sin.

God has a relationship with all of humanity, and we can overcome the wrong that we do. We have the ability to repent, and God has the capability to forgive us when we do wrong.

Coveting is the sin inherited from Adam, When I take on the spirit of Christ I do away with coveting as Jesus did.

In contrast, Jesus’ loving character did not covet equality with God, for we read in
Philippians 2:3-7: “Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant.”
My Lord is a jew.

 

[smokydot]

You openly lied about what I said and accused me of being dishonest because of it. That is poetic hypocrisy.
It's not "whining" to point out that you were fabricating something and attributing it to me.
It is truly puzzling that a person with so little respect for truth claims to have access to it so freely.

The facts of the record presented speak for themselves in http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314717-post432.html

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The facts presented speak for themselves.

Yes they do. :biglaugh:

I'm very slightly tempted to think that you're actually incompetent enough to think that I said what you think that I said.

But it would be more rude IMHO to assume that you're abysmally stupid instead of obstinately dishonest.

Either way, you're twisting my words around so that they have no relationship to what was written......

It's too easy to see that you've changed the words - can't you look at my words and then look at what you said? I know that it's hard, but maybe you can redeem what little integrity you have left.

 

[fallingblood]

The facts presented speak for themselves in http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314717-post432.html

That is why I asked you to stop posting. Because all you do is make belittling remarks, that add nothing, or you repeat yourself by copying and pasting your points, or you link back to them continuously, even though they add nothing at all. Thus, I see nothing but waste in your posts, and it is annoying to see a discussion, that at least was going somewhere, be completely derailed by your insistence of posting waste.

I don't want this thread to end up like my other one on the what day Jesus was crucified. As in, over a thousand responses that have nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, and consists of hundreds of repeated posts that don't even address anything anyway. So please, don't waste all of this time again.

 

[smokydot]

Read carefully, now. I did not say that I believed that there were five types, but that some commentaries and method books examine between three and five types.

Un huh. . .then, in light of your unbelief here regarding types, you''ll understand why I say, (in the following) that your advice to me rgarding types is a formula
for what the Bible calls unbelief:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314202-post419.html,

and which appellation you challenged here: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2314283-post421.html

The word for the day is: unbelief.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That is why I asked you to stop posting. Because all you do is make belittling remarks, that add nothing, or you repeat yourself by copying and pasting your points, or you link back to them continuously, even though they add nothing at all. Thus, I see nothing but waste in your posts, and it is annoying to see a discussion, that at least was going somewhere, be completely derailed by your insistence of posting waste.

I don't want this thread to end up like my other one on the what day Jesus was crucified. As in, over a thousand responses that have nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, and consists of hundreds of repeated posts that don't even address anything anyway. So please, don't waste all of this time again.

:danana:

I'll do my part.

 

[smokydot]

:danana:

I'll do my part.

Then the problem will cease to exist. . .

 

[Harmonious]

It is part of the NT which is the basis of Christianity and the authority for what is to be believed.

Amongst Christians, I imagine.

However, the author knew squat about Jewish law.

A true Pharisee of Jn 7:49 -- ". . .this mob that knows nothing of the law--there is a curse on them."

For whatever that's worth.

People should not look to non-Jews to answers for questions about Jewish law. Really. It never helps.

Doesn't matter what the Jewish laws are. . .the Chritian Hebrews were no longer subject to them because they had been set aside with the setting aside of the Levitical priesthood, which was their basis (Heb 7:12).

Repeating yourself will not make Christians who were not born Jews any more involved with Torah law, as they were never a part of it, and it will never make Christians who were born Jews any LESS commanded to follow the Torah.

It's almost as if you believe that by repeating this phrase, it will gain more meaning or importance with each repetition.

100 X 0 = 0

I'm glad it means something to YOU, Smoky. But it won't give Hebrews any more relevance about Jewish law just because you've repeated it.

 

[Harmonious]

Coveting is the sin inherited from Adam,

No, it's not. Adam coveted something. And I'm sure he and God squared away whatever was necessary thousands of years ago.

Each person who covets does so on their own time, with their own desire.

When I take on the spirit of Christ I do away with coveting as Jesus did.

No you don't. You have your own covetousness to deal with.

Jesus had HIS own to deal with.

Edited to add: According to MY belief system, Jesus didn't do anything for you or anyone else. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

Again, according to my belief system, your relationship with God is exactly the same, whether you have Jesus in your life or not.

I inherited my humanity from Adam and Eve. If I'm sinful, that's my OWN accord, and God and I are working on it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Jesus didn't do anything for you. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

Your relationship with God is exactly the same, whether you have Jesus in your life or not.

Just a second here.

That's your perspective. You shouldn't apply it to someone else.

I know where you're coming from, but we're here to learn about the religion of others rather than tell them what their religion does for them.

 

[Harmonious]

Just a second here.

That's your perspective. You shouldn't apply it to someone else.

I know where you're coming from, but we're here to learn about the religion of others rather than tell them what their religion does for them.

Fair enough.

Would it make it better if I said that my belief system says that Jesus does nothing for you?