Can Jewish law be fulfilled?

[Harmonious]

some of us may die while we are awaiting for Gods intervention... but thats okay because Gods plan to resurrect any and all who have died will fix that.

Interesting.

i believe that 'world to come' is actually the world we are living in right now.

Even more interesting.

Jesus has taken away the death penalty for sin.

No he hasn't, except in your heart and mind.

The death penalty isn't the penalty for all sin. Jesus hasn't done anything in particular. People still die. Not getting the point, here.

I think that makes him very relevant in terms of the world to come because at that time, with Gods full governance of the earth, no one will die.

No. When God decides to resurrect the dead, Jesus will not have contributed to this fact more than any other human.

I still think the whole "Jesus is important" thing doesn't really work. I realize you believe it is, but I don't see the point. The world was doing just fine without him. It is doing just fine NOW without him. He really hasn't added anything to my life. I'm only surprised that he seems to have done something for you.

Jesus didnt come up with the idea of an afterlife.... He preached eternal life on this earth because he believed in what the Hebrews scriptures promise...eternal life on this earth.
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth"

Eh. Okay.

 

[BigRed]

thats right

all the animal sacrifices made under the mosaic law were not real in terms of removing sins because the people still sinned. They were merely a 'foreshadow' of the sacrifice the Christ would give of himself...the 'real' offering that was to come which would be able to remove sins completely.

That is just a Christian assertion. Not based on the facts.

Exodus 34:7
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin;

Leviticus 4:20
'He shall also do with the bull just as he did with the bull of the sin offering; thus he shall do with it So the priest shall make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.

Leviticus 4:26
' All its fat he shall offer up in smoke on the altar as in the case of the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings Thus the priest shall make atonement for him in regard to his sin, and he will be forgiven.


Leviticus 5:10
'The second he shall then prepare as a burnt offering according to the ordinance So the priest shall make atonement on his behalf for his sin which he has committed, and it will be forgiven him.


Leviticus 5:13
'So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin which he has committed from one of these, and it will be forgiven him; then the rest shall become the priest's, like the grain offering.'"


Leviticus 5:16
" He shall make restitution for that which he has sinned against the holy thing, and shall add to it a fifth part of it and give it to the priest The priest shall then make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering, and it will be forgiven him.

Leviticus 19:22
'The priest shall also make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin which he has committed, and the sin which he has committed will be forgiven him.

Numbers 15:25
'Then the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and they will be forgiven; for it was an error, and they have brought their offering, an offering by fire to the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their error.

These Scriptures are some of the Scriptures that show that your assertion, the Christian assertion, is not true.

Do you think that God is a liar?
Do you think that God gave Israel a defective Torah?
Maybe you need to take a closer look at Paul and his theology to find out who is telling the truth. God or Paul?

BigRed

 

[Harmonious]

That is just a Christian assertion. Not based on the facts.

Exodus 34:7
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin;

Leviticus 4:20
'He shall also do with the bull just as he did with the bull of the sin offering; thus he shall do with it So the priest shall make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.

Leviticus 4:26
' All its fat he shall offer up in smoke on the altar as in the case of the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings Thus the priest shall make atonement for him in regard to his sin, and he will be forgiven.


Leviticus 5:10
'The second he shall then prepare as a burnt offering according to the ordinance So the priest shall make atonement on his behalf for his sin which he has committed, and it will be forgiven him.


Leviticus 5:13
'So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin which he has committed from one of these, and it will be forgiven him; then the rest shall become the priest's, like the grain offering.'"


Leviticus 5:16
" He shall make restitution for that which he has sinned against the holy thing, and shall add to it a fifth part of it and give it to the priest The priest shall then make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering, and it will be forgiven him.

Leviticus 19:22
'The priest shall also make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin which he has committed, and the sin which he has committed will be forgiven him.

Numbers 15:25
'Then the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and they will be forgiven; for it was an error, and they have brought their offering, an offering by fire to the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their error.

These Scriptures are some of the Scriptures that show that your assertion, the Christian assertion, is not true.

Do you think that God is a liar?
Do you think that God gave Israel a defective Torah?
Maybe you need to take a closer look at Paul and his theology to find out who is telling the truth. God or Paul?

BigRed

Well said. :clap

 

[Pegg]

No he hasn't, except in your heart and mind.

The death penalty isn't the penalty for all sin. Jesus hasn't done anything in particular. People still die. Not getting the point, here.

when i first read the Adam and Eve story the question that was posed to me was this... If Adam was told that consequences of eating from the tree would be death, what would have happened if he had never eaten from the tree?

I thought about that question for a while and there was only one logical conclusion that I could draw from it.

Now while its true that we are still dying right now, it wont be that way forever and the Hebrew scriptures tell us this over and over again.

Isaiah 45:18 tells us the earth will always be inhabited by man
Psalm 37:11, 29 "11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth....29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

and this is the same message from the hebrew scriptures that Jesus preached
"happy are the mild tempered since they will inherit the earth"
And, in vision, the apostle John saw the fulfillment of all the promises of the hebrew scriptures in Rev 21:3-4 "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

No. When God decides to resurrect the dead, Jesus will not have contributed to this fact more than any other human.

I still think the whole "Jesus is important" thing doesn't really work. I realize you believe it is, but I don't see the point. The world was doing just fine without him. It is doing just fine NOW without him. He really hasn't added anything to my life. I'm only surprised that he seems to have done something for you.

Eh. Okay.

for some reason i cant look at the world and say 'things are good' because I find that im deeply affected by the suffering of those around me. I know Africa is a long way from Australia but when i see tribes going to war and innocent people being slaughtered, i feel for them and i feel like its happening right here. When i see an earthquake flatten a city and all the people in it, i feel its happened to me. So i just cannot accept the world the way it is.

 

[Harmonious]

when i first read the Adam and Eve story the question that was posed to me was this... If Adam was told that consequences of eating from the tree would be death, what would have happened if he had never eaten from the tree?

I thought about that question for a while and there was only one logical conclusion that I could draw from it.

What conclusion was that?

Now while its true that we are still dying right now, it wont be that way forever and the Hebrew scriptures tell us this over and over again.

Isaiah 45:18 tells us the earth will always be inhabited by man
Psalm 37:11, 29 "11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth....29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

Hey - we even agree about the interpretation of what we're looking at. Nice.

and this is the same message from the hebrew scriptures that Jesus preached
"happy are the mild tempered since they will inherit the earth"

Eh. Okay.

And, in vision, the apostle John saw the fulfillment of all the promises of the hebrew scriptures in Rev 21:3-4 "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Why is it so meaningful to you to speak of the Christian scriptures as "Hebrew" scriptures? They were never in Hebrew. If Jesus existed, he didn't speak Hebrew. He would have spoken Aramaic. But we all know that it was originally written in Greek.

So please don't bother calling it Hebrew scriptures, as it simply isn't, and I can almost guarantee that you couldn't read it if it WAS in Hebrew.

for some reason i cant look at the world and say 'things are good' because I find that im deeply affected by the suffering of those around me. I know Africa is a long way from Australia but when i see tribes going to war and innocent people being slaughtered, i feel for them and i feel like its happening right here. When i see an earthquake flatten a city and all the people in it, i feel its happened to me. So i just cannot accept the world the way it is.

You know...

While I can definitely have empathy for the tragedies and calamities that happen around me, it would be horrifically ungrateful of me to not acknowledge the good that God does for me on a regular basis.

I wake up every morning. That's a blessing.

My biology works - mostly. But I know that it's better than the alternative, so I know we're doing good, and I thank God for what I've got.

My father and brother are alive and well, and they're here with me, and they love me. More blessings. I do my part to take care of them.

I have friends who have good jobs. Another blessing. I have a job. Money earned is indeed a blessing from God, especially at a time when jobs are scarce.

The heating in my house works. It is a blessing (I remember being in a house without heating).

I recognize the things that are good around me, to me, to people I know and love, and sometimes don't know but still love, and I give thanks to God for all these blessings.

While I pray for the betterment of the situation of people who are in dire straits, I am grateful and give thanks for the blessings that I do have.

And if you can't see any good in life, I would say that you aren't really in touch with God, because you can't see the way He's blessed you.

If we work to make the world a better place, we will have done a good thing. My task in life might not be to end global hunger, but if I can make someone smile with a kind word or deed, I've done at least SOMETHING good.

And doing good is the goal.

 

[Pegg]

That is just a Christian assertion. Not based on the facts.

Numbers 15:25
'Then the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the sons of Israel, and they will be forgiven; for it was an error, and they have brought their offering, an offering by fire to the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their error.

These Scriptures are some of the Scriptures that show that your assertion, the Christian assertion, is not true.

Do you think that God is a liar?
Do you think that God gave Israel a defective Torah?
Maybe you need to take a closer look at Paul and his theology to find out who is telling the truth. God or Paul?

BigRed

Why did the priest have to come back year after year to offer the sacrifice?

Was it not because the sacrifice itself did not take sins away completely? That is what Paul was getting at when he said:
Heb10:[men] can never with the same sacrifices from year to year which they offer continually make those who approach perfect. 2 Otherwise, would the [sacrifices] not have stopped being offered, because those rendering sacred service who had been cleansed once for all time would have no consciousness of sins anymore? 3 To the contrary, by these sacrifices there is a reminding of sins from year to year, 4 for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away

so those sacrifices were to 'acknowledge' sin.... and when we acknowledge our sin we are forgiven... but the sacrifice itself does not forgive us.

 

[Harmonious]

Why did the priest have to come back year after year to offer the sacrifice?

Because the Jewish people make other mistakes, and commit other sins.

It's part of the human condition, to make mistakes, you know.

Was it not because the sacrifice itself did not take sins away completely?

Of COURSE the sacrifice itself did not take sins away completely. The people had to stop doing the sin they are guilty of, and work to do better. That is what takes the sins away.

The sacrifice is an act of obedience to show that we're on our way.

so those sacrifices were to 'acknowledge' sin.... and when we acknowledge our sin we are forgiven... but the sacrifice itself does not forgive us.

Of course the sacrifice itself does not forgive us. God does.

 

[Pegg]

What conclusion was that?

God brings Adam to life, gives him a job to name all the animals, gives him a wife, gives him a purpose to have children and subdue the earth. Inside his garden home, God has set the benchmark for how he wants Adam to subdue the earth... to make all the earth a paradise. then he gives him 1 rule which has consequences if broken.

"of all the trees of the garden you may eat to satisfaction, but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it for in the day you eat from it you will positively die"

If Adam had never broken that rule, there is only one conclusion I can draw. Whats yours?

Why is it so meaningful to you to speak of the Christian scriptures as "Hebrew" scriptures? They were never in Hebrew. If Jesus existed, he didn't speak Hebrew. He would have spoken Aramaic. But we all know that it was originally written in Greek.

So please don't bother calling it Hebrew scriptures, as it simply isn't, and I can almost guarantee that you couldn't read it if it WAS in Hebrew.

The christian scriptures are Christs explanation of the Hebrew scriptures...the scriptures that he lived by and taught. Im not saying the NT are Hebrew scriptures, but in terms of the explanations that the NT writers give, they are most certainly closely associated. This is why Christians revere the Hebrew scriptures as much as the Greek Scriptures.

And if you can't see any good in life, I would say that you aren't really in touch with God, because you can't see the way He's blessed you.

If we work to make the world a better place, we will have done a good thing. My task in life might not be to end global hunger, but if I can make someone smile with a kind word or deed, I've done at least SOMETHING good.

And doing good is the goal.

you have a very positive outlook which is a great spirit to have

I do try to be positive but when it comes to the world of mankind, i think im more pessimistic then i should be, and i have to really work hard to feel positive about it. The only thing im really positive about is my belief that God will do what needs to be done because i have very little faith that mankind will be able to achieve all that I want to see achieved....that is what is so attractive about the bible and God and Jesus...its the only hope we've got in my mind.

If I had a magic wand i'd use it believe me, but even if we do our best individually, we cant stop a tornado or a tsunami or an earthquake or diseases... there will always be things out of our control. But you are right, we should look at what we've individually got and be thankful for that.

 

[Pegg]

Because the Jewish people make other mistakes, and commit other sins.

It's part of the human condition, to make mistakes, you know.

yes and thats because we are born with an inborn tendency to sin...to miss the mark set by God. But God can guide us back to that perfect mark... we can do things right if we are taught how and if we are given enough of an opportunity to get it right.

But our lifespan is too short to give us the time we need to learn to get it right...imagine if we had 10 lifetimes to get things right instead of just our current 1. With God all things are possible.

Of COURSE the sacrifice itself did not take sins away completely. The people had to stop doing the sin they are guilty of, and work to do better. That is what takes the sins away.

The sacrifice is an act of obedience to show that we're on our way.


Of course the sacrifice itself does not forgive us. God does.

You see, Christianity and Judaism isnt all that different really

Pauls theology is based on your scriptures.

 

[Harmonious]

God brings Adam to life, gives him a job to name all the animals, gives him a wife, gives him a purpose to have children and subdue the earth. Inside his garden home, God has set the benchmark for how he wants Adam to subdue the earth... to make all the earth a paradise. then he gives him 1 rule which has consequences if broken.

"of all the trees of the garden you may eat to satisfaction, but as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it for in the day you eat from it you will positively die"

If Adam and never broken that rule, there is only one conclusion I can draw. Whats yours?

You know... You are missing another important verse.

9. And the Lord God caused to sprout from the ground every tree pleasant to see and good to eat, and the Tree of Life in the midst of the garden, and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

Now... What would have happened if Adam and Eve did NOT eat from the Tree of Life? Would they have lived forever?

We really don't know. You are right - if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were doomed to die. But what would it have been if they did not eat from the Tree of Life?

Since we don't know, there is more than one conclusion to come to.

The concept of death is sad, because we cannot continue to earn merit here. But I believe that after death, there is a place where we experience truth that isn't always visible here. God's justice and ways and means are far more clear there and then.

We'll experience it ourselves after 120 years. Let's pray that we can live that long, in good health and good fortune.

Or whatever else comes.

The christian scriptures are Christs explanation of the Hebrew scriptures...the scriptures that he lived by and taught.

Of a sort.

Im not saying the NT are Hebrew scriptures, but in terms of the explanations that the NT writers give, they are most certainly closely associated. This is why Christians revere the Hebrew scriptures as much as the Greek Scriptures.

Okay.

you have a very positive outlook which is a great spirit to have

I try.

I do try to be positive but when it comes to the world of mankind, i think im more pessimistic then i should be, and i have to really work hard to feel positive about it. The only thing im really positive about is my belief that God will do what needs to be done because i have very little faith that mankind will be able to achieve all that I want to see achieved....that is what is so attractive about the bible and God and Jesus...its the only hope we've got in my mind.

If I had a magic wand i'd use it believe me, but even if we do our best individually, we cant stop a tornado or a tsunami or an earthquake or diseases... there will always be things out of our control. But you are right, we should look at what we've individually got and be thankful for that.

You know, in Hebrew, we have a saying.

The whole entire world is a very narrow bridge. The main thing to recall is to have no fear at all.

The world is indeed plagued with troubles, narrows, and straits. But God will be with us, and we should not fear at all.

And for those who enjoy evil puns:

The world is a strange carrot, but the farmer is not at all afraid.

 

[Harmonious]

yes and thats because we are born with an inborn tendency to sin...to miss the mark set by God.

No, no, no. We don't miss the mark set by God. God sets the mark, and we strive upward to reach it.

Don't focus on not getting there. Focus on how far we've come.

You really DO have a pessimistic streak.

But God can guide us back to that perfect mark... we can do things right if we are taught how and if we are given enough of an opportunity to get it right.

There is always opportunity to work hard.

It isn't about results, but the effort it takes to get there. Simply trying makes us better people. That is the goal.

Not perfection, as we'll never get there. But continual self-improvement. We can always be better, and there is always room for improvement.

But our lifespan is too short to give us the time we need to learn to get it right...

It is not upon us to complete the task, but neither are we free to abandon it.

We don't need to learn to get it right. We need to learn to get better. Ask for God's help, and we'll get farther than you think possible.

imagine if we had 10 lifetimes to get things right instead of just our current 1. With God all things are possible.

Yup.

You see, Christianity and Judaism isnt all that different really

In practice? That depends. On the goal and work to better ourselves, and thereby the rest of humanity? Yup.

On the individual commandments that make the Jews different? It's very different.

About who or what we venerate? Very different.

About the idea that God is out there and He loves us? We agree.

Pauls theology is based on your scriptures.

That's debatable.

When he said "None come to God but through Jesus," his theology has nothing to do with mine.

 

[Pegg]

You know... You are missing another important verse.

9. And the Lord God caused to sprout from the ground every tree pleasant to see and good to eat, and the Tree of Life in the midst of the garden, and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

Now... What would have happened if Adam and Eve did NOT eat from the Tree of Life? Would they have lived forever?

We really don't know. You are right - if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were doomed to die. But what would it have been if they did not eat from the Tree of Life?

I thought the scriptures say that God prevented them from eating the tree of life in vs 22-23 God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E′den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken

This is another firm reason to conclude that everlasting life on earth was on the cards for Adam and Eve. What do you make of it?

You know, in Hebrew, we have a saying.
The whole entire world is a very narrow bridge. The main thing to recall is to have no fear at all.
The world is indeed plagued with troubles, narrows, and straits. But God will be with us, and we should not fear at all.

And for those who enjoy evil puns:
The world is a strange carrot, but the farmer is not at all afraid.

So true.

 

[Pegg]

No, no, no. We don't miss the mark set by God. God sets the mark, and we strive upward to reach it.

Don't focus on not getting there. Focus on how far we've come.

You really DO have a pessimistic streak.

hahah yes i do :help:

But the hebrew word translated 'sin' is chat‧ta’th′ ... it means 'miss' as in failing to meet an intended target. So yes, we should be looking at always improving and looking at how far we've come, but at that same time we should know what the mark is that we are missing.

think of it this way, if we know the perfect standard, then we have a goal to strive to meet. But if we dont meet it, we dont have to beat ourselves over the head for not meeting it. Hows that for positivity

There is always opportunity to work hard.
It isn't about results, but the effort it takes to get there. Simply trying makes us better people. That is the goal.
Not perfection, as we'll never get there. But continual self-improvement. We can always be better, and there is always room for improvement.

Im pretty sure that we can reach perfection because all it really means is doing things Gods way. We can do that and im sure there are many things we already do correctly, or perfectly, according to Gods standards.

When he said "None come to God but through Jesus," his theology has nothing to do with mine.

if you believed Jesus was the promised Messiah, then it would be.

 

[Harmonious]

I thought the scriptures say that God prevented them from eating the tree of life in vs 22-23 God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that J- God put him out of the garden of E′den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken

This is another firm reason to conclude that everlasting life on earth was on the cards for Adam and Eve. What do you make of it?

They were only forbidden from eating from that tree AFTER they had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So... What would have been if they didn't eat from either tree? I don't know.

So true.

It's lovely to find common ground.

 

[Pegg]

They were only forbidden from eating from that tree AFTER they had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So... What would have been if they didn't eat from either tree? I don't know.

we know what prevented them from eating of the tree of life... it was their disobedience to Gods law or IOW, sin.

So if they never sinned then it stands to reason that they would have been permitted to eat of the tree of life and live forever. And in this way the hebrew scriptures about everlasting life begin to become a real possibility

Its not a reality in our world yet, but it shows how everlasting life is possible.

It's lovely to find common ground.

yes it is

 

[Harmonious]

hahah yes i do :help:

But the hebrew word translated 'sin' is chat‧ta’th′ ... it means 'miss' as in failing to meet an intended target. So yes, we should be looking at always improving and looking at how far we've come, but at that same time we should know what the mark is that we are missing.

No, we shouldn't. We are human, and not geared to be perfect. If we focused on how perfect we weren't, it would be frustrating and food for despair. But that isn't what God wants for us.

We should be happy in what we do, and work hard to do our best. We'll win some, we'll lose some. But we should take our losses and our misses and learn from them.

It does no good to look at our losses and our misses and say, "I give up! I'll never get there!"

God never demanded perfection. Only that we continue to try.

think of it this way, if we know the perfect standard, then we have a goal to strive to meet. But if we dont meet it, we dont have to beat ourselves over the head for not meeting it. Hows that for positivity

You're getting better.

But we never HAD perfection as a standard. God never expected humanity to be perfect. If we were supposed to be perfect, we would be angels, and then there would be no point.

Instead, we have temptation, and we have the will to fall to it or to overcome it.

That is our job.

Im pretty sure that we can reach perfection because all it really means is doing things Gods way.

Nope. There is always room for improvement. There is no such thing as being perfect (for anyone who isn't God), because there is always something else we can do, a new facet to uncover, another way to learn and grow.

We'll never get there. But we can strive ever upward.

We can do that and im sure there are many things we already do correctly, or perfectly, according to Gods standards.

Perfect? No. Correctly? Certainly.

But there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

if you believed Jesus was the promised Messiah, then it would be.

Oh, hell no.

The Messiah isn't supposed to be an intermediary between the common man and God. Every man and woman has their own ability to reach God, and we don't need Jesus, we don't need a golden calf.

All we need are ourselves, and God.

The Messiah is supposed to rule and be a king. He is supposed to teach Torah, true. But he won't get in the way of any individual and God. No intermediary.

So... Jesus wasn't the Messiah. Even if he was, which he wasn't, he STILL would not be a conduit to God.

 

[free spirit]

No, no, no. We don't miss the mark set by God. God sets the mark, and we strive upward to reach it.

Don't focus on not getting there. Focus on how far we've come.

There is always opportunity to work hard.

It isn't about results, but the effort it takes to get there. Simply trying makes us better people. That is the goal.

Not perfection, as we'll never get there. But continual self-improvement. We can always be better, and there is always room for improvement.

It is not upon us to complete the task, but neither are we free to abandon it.

We don't need to learn to get it right. We need to learn to get better. Ask for God's help, and we'll get farther than you think possible.

About the idea that God is out there and He loves us? We agree.

I do not know if the RC religion has taken a page out of your book; or the Jews of today have learned what makes for success and taken a page out of the book of Rome's church

 

[Harmonious]

I do not know if the RC religion has taken a page out of your book; or the Jews of today have learned what makes for success and taken a page out of the book of Rome's church

I would suggest that the Catholic Church took a page out of the Jewish playbook.

 

[Harmonious]

we know what prevented them from eating of the tree of life... it was their disobedience to Gods law or IOW, sin.

So if they never sinned then it stands to reason that they would have been permitted to eat of the tree of life and live forever.

It stands to reason, but it is only a conjecture. We don't know for certain, since that "might" have happened.

It is also a conjecture that if Adam and Eve were patient that God might have changed His mind about eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, giving them permission to have what was previously forbidden. But since they ate before God granted permission, it was akin to stealing.

It is just as likely. But we'll never know.

And in this way the hebrew scriptures about everlasting life begin to become a real possibility

I'm not sure.

Its not a reality in our world yet, but it shows how everlasting life is possible.

We agree again. This is becoming catching, or something.

yes it is

 

[smokydot]

Well, you refer to the "record" as if it were of legal quality (I assume) - you speak of facts and a court of law.
I suspect that a court would not allow a lawyer to continually redact his evidence without notifying the defense and the judge.
You are continually moving the target like a corrupt lawyer, making everything that you say invalid. You are perjuring yourself to no end... and it seems that you take pride in it.
And then you arrogantly proclaim your righteousness.

Uh huh. . .your same ole MO. . .called out here, at (6) ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2318652-post514.html

A record is a record. . .is a record. . .is a record. . .from the NT, to a diary, to a court transcript. A record is a record.

Your belly button is showing again through your flimsy veil which you hope will hide the fact that you got nuthin!