Can morality arise from natural selection?

[Prophet]

If survival was the only drive at work here, I highly doubt we'd see beings evolving to be helpless at birth and reliant upon the love of parents for survival. It would seem like brute nature survival would knock that weak trait right out of the gene pool.

 

[1137]

The totality of the moral law tells us to be selfless. Like my bee and your driver ant. Yes, intelligence has helped me to fully understand this moral law, but it weighs down on all beings equally.

Actually, naturally we, learn self-interest and even selfishness depending on the circumstances. Animals naturally put self preservation above all. With selflessness we would have no desire for self preservation.

It seems like morality can only be absolute if conditions are identical for everyone. But moral guidelines intersect specific contexts, which determine available choices and morality qualifiers. The qualifiers vary by society.

Are you suggesting cold-blooded murder and rape can be moral in certain situations?

 

[1137]

If survival was the only drive at work here, I highly doubt we'd see beings evolving to be helpless at birth and reliant upon the love of parents for survival. It would seem like brute nature survival would knock that weak trait right out of the gene pool.

Actually helpless animals get killed. If you cannot protect yourself in the wild you die.

 

[Songbird]

If survival was the only drive at work here, I highly doubt we'd see beings evolving to be helpless at birth and reliant upon the love of parents for survival. It would seem like brute nature survival would knock that weak trait right out of the gene pool.

Not if requiring parental bonding and investment vastly compensated for helplessness at birth by increasing the odds of survival long-term. Mother Nature works in mysterious ways. Anyhoo, I didn't say survival is the only drive. Though I suspect it is.

 

[Songbird]

Are you suggesting cold-blooded murder and rape can be moral in certain situations?

I don't know how I would have suggested that. I said it seems like morality can only be absolute if conditions are identical for everyone...

 

[Prophet]

Are you suggesting cold-blooded murder and rape can be moral in certain situations?

Judge morality with respect to action and you will have nonsense. Instead, judge morality with respect to selfish or selfless motive.

This said, you muddle the issue by taking two crimes which imply selfish motive.

 

[Prophet]

Mother Nature works in mysterious ways.

This is how fundies debate.

 

[Songbird]

This is how fundies debate.

Then you understood my pun.

 

[swamplizard]

Perhaps, morality is a word that depicts the awareness that one is part of the one all.

Perhaps I am as mad as a hatter.

best,
swampy

 

[Songbird]

Perhaps, morality is a word that depicts the awareness that one is part of the one all.

I like that.

Perhaps I am as mad as a hatter.

best,
swampy

I recognize the signs.

 

[Prophet]

Perhaps, morality is a word that depicts the awareness that one is part of the one all.

Perhaps I am as mad as a hatter.

best,
swampy

I think you are onto something, sir.

 

[swamplizard]

Well birdie and prophet,

I enjoy my insanity, I wear it well.

bestest,
swampy

 

[Prophet]

Actually, naturally we, learn self-interest and even selfishness depending on the circumstances. Animals naturally put self preservation above all. With selflessness we would have no desire for self preservation.

Put this in my words and it says beings who experience evil from others will be damaged in the process and will perform evil in the future. I have no issue with this line of thought.

 

[Prophet]

Well birdie and prophet,

I enjoy my insanity, I wear it well.

bestest,
swampy

I wasn't talking about the insanity, just your blossoming meta-view on morality.

 

[swamplizard]

Thanks Prophet.

best,
swampy

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I am going to say this just once as a gnostic. There is no self-awareness without self-interest. To abandon self is anathema to gnostics. You embrace and know your self. Self-sacrifice is deemed immoral because it sacrifices self not to a greater good but to a system that works against the greater good and the individual.

 

[1137]

I don't know how I would have suggested that. I said it seems like morality can only be absolute if conditions are identical for everyone...

Totally misunderstood haha. Apologies. I'm studying for finals at the same time.

 

[swamplizard]

Sometimes, it may be possible, that is, that what is known to the one overrides what the one "believes."

best,
swampy

 

[1137]

I am going to say this just once as a gnostic. There is no self-awareness without self-interest. To abandon self is anathema to gnostics. You embrace and know your self. Self-sacrifice is deemed immoral because it sacrifices self not to a greater good but to a system that works against the greater good and the individual.

Well said

 

[Songbird]

Totally misunderstood haha. Apologies. I'm studying for finals at the same time.

Ha, no worries! Best of luck on the finals!