Can science disprove the existence of God?

[ArtieE]

Incorrect my friend. Websters doesn't work here in this discussion ! Just google some science which states there are theories that many universes exist.

That is called a multiverse. For those who believe in a multiverse it would contain everything that exists. The definition of universe is still the same.

One truly silly but accepted theory is called the MWI (many worlds interpretation). It says there are a infinite number of universes. Also this theory claims anything imaginable event object or thing can and will happen! This is science self imploding! The MWI which is a spinoff of SUSY, string theory etc tells us unicorns exist the tooth fairy exists Hitler won the war etc etc.... Dog this theory makes the wildest religion seem tame in comparison!

I would think that you would love those theories given that it would be impossible for your god not to exist...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I Thought we already established that God is a fiction of our minds?

It certainly is.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Everything i write here is not true for ALL religions and for sure not all people... but...

Science is the name we gave to the process of observing, measuring, studying, experimenting and understanding the universe of which we are part.
God is the name we gave to an entity that some believe is the one true creator of everything there is, was and ever will be...

Science doesn't require ANYTHING from the scientist.. you don't have to follow any texts or laws or rules.. (Although you probably should if you want to learn and understanding advanced sciences)
God / Religion is based on rules, worship, domination and an understanding that humans have no option than do God's bidding unless they want to suffer after they die...

Science can be practiced anytime, anywhere by anyone without any discrimination
Religion must be practiced in designated places set by other people who claim God wants it, It is not available for anyone who wishes it and a lot of times its forced on you whether you want it or not.

Science is what makes our technology advance
Religion is what claims science is wrong yet won't miss a new technological development for its benefit

Science is what eliminates religion dogmas
Religion is what generate new dogmas once the old ones have been broken

Science is a way of thinking about stuff and the acceptance that we are part of the universe
Religion is a way of thinking about stuff and claiming that the universe was made for us

Science have no sacred topics that one cannot prove as wrong
Religion is based on sacred topics that no one but a mere few have the authority to "optimize"

Science is what comes to people from birth.. toddlers are practicing science.. not religion...
Religion is what comes to people when they are taught by older people that their natural senses as are wrong and the true nature of the universe is actually a supernatural thing

And the list can go On and On and On...

You don't have to get anything from anyone.. you get things from people who already learned what you want to learn.. as the famous quote... "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." (Issac newton)
Without even knowing, as a child, you practiced science.. you made discoveries.. how many children have you seen that came and discovered God (Without the help of anyone)?
As a child, you are intrigued by the universe.. everything is a mystery.. and you on your own learn how things work.. you learn by experimenting and observing.. (Crawl, Walk, Talk, Touch, it is all learned based on observing and imitating)
I Don't think there are spiritual children who are born and wonder about God


Yep, its in nowhere BUT our minds...


Couldn't quite understand what you are saying here.. Are you asking what science discoveries can be put under a microscope?


There is nothing wrong with our need for understanding life.. of course not.
There is however a lot of wrong when someone is using this need to control, manipulate and dominate whole populations that precisely due to the need you mentioned, will follow everyone that seems reliable to them even if this is far from the truth.


I Thought we already established that God is a fiction of our minds?

disclaimer; I like atheists as well as any other people. I love those anyone that practice non violent lifestyles religion and such. I was only using atheists to contrast Christians being derided bit in this thread....


We have a lot to talk about concerning religion. Almost every statement you made regarding religion was incorrect, sometimes by a litle sometimes by a poo-load!. It actually saddens me when I read such false hoods because it harms you as well as others. I would wager a bet that you had to been taught to despise or simply not like religion and maybe religious people by someone who thought they were doing you a favor. How do I know that? I was born an atheist and lived as an atheist until I was nearly 21. I still love science even though it has been racked with forgeries fraud and other life destroying crimes and job destroying falsehoods. Don't believe me? Well you have plenty of time to learn the truth! If you think religious thought was used to influence thought think about this; Pol Pot atheist, killed millions for nothing. Stalin, atheist psychopath, killed many millions of religious and intellectuals. Today North Korea the little nut that runs the place kills millions and is an atheist....Now that is destructive and hate filled behaviors and is only a fraction of mostly atheist players.

disclaimer; I like atheists as well as any other people. I love those anyone that practice non violent lifestyles religion and such. I was only using atheists to contrast Christians being derided bit in this thread....

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

It certainly is.

How do you know everything is not fiction created by our minds......eh?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

How do you know everything is not fiction created by our minds......eh?

In a sense that IS the case, we construct a mental representation of "out there", based on our perceptions.

"God" is a belief which some have, but it is not based on anything "out there", rather it seems to be the product of wishful thinking, stemming from the fear of death and the fragility of human existence.

Richard Dawkins referred to it the "God delusion".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion

 

[ArtieE]

Pol Pot atheist, killed millions for nothing. Stalin, atheist psychopath, killed many millions of religious and intellectuals.

You forgot a fellow called God who drowned the whole planet... or was he a theist?

 

[Altfish]

God has a pretty bad track record for murder...


? -- Drowned everyone in the whole world except for Noah and his family (Genesis 7)

1 -- Saltified Lot's wife (Genesis 19:26)

? -- Burned all of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah (except for "good" Lot who offered his virgin daughters to a mob of men and then slept with both of them himself later)

1 -- Slew Er, Judah's firstborn son (Genesis 38:7)

1 -- Killed Er's brother, Onan because he spilled semen on the ground so as not to conceive offspring for his brother's wife whom he was forced to marry (Genesis 38:9-10)

? -- The firstborn in all of Egypt (Exodus 12:29)

? -- Drowned the pharoah and all of his gang in the Red Sea (Exodus 14:26-28)

2 -- Nadab and Abihu for making a fire

? -- Burned some Jews for complaining

? -- Sent a plague against Jews for being greedy

11 -- Sent a plague on Jews who gave the chosen land a bad report

? -- Korah and other Jews who didn't like Moses

? -- The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their families because they had been rebellious (Numbers 16:27-33)

250 -- A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men (Numbers 16:35)

14,700 -- Sent a plague on Jews apparently for the hell of it (Numbers 16:49) "many" -- Sent serpents on Jews (Numbers 21:6)

24,000 -- Plague killed Jews who followed Baal (Numbers 25:9)

? -- Philistines

50,070 -- Jews who looked in the ark of the covenant (1 Samuel 6:19)

1 -- Nabal for scorning David

1 -- Uzzah for touching the ark when trying to keep it from falling

1 -- David and Bathsheba's child

70,000 -- Sent a pestilence because David sinned (2 Samuel 24:15)

51 -- Fire from heaven consumes the prophets of Baal (2 Kings 1:10-12)

102 -- Sent fire down on Ahaziah's men

42 -- Sent bears to kill children who mocked Elisha (2 Kings 2:23-24)

? -- Sent lions to kill invaders

185,000 -- Assyrians (2 Kings 19:35)

80,000 -- Lots of bad Israelites

________________________________________

399,933 + ? -- Total killed by God!



Killed on God's orders by his followers



? -- Jacob's sons killed every man in Shechem

3,000 -- Jews worshipping the golden calf (Exodus 32:27-29)

1 -- Man gathering wood on the Sabbath Day (Numbers 15:32-36)

? -- Canaan (Numbers 21:3)

? -- The Lord commands Moses to kill the people and expose them in broad daylight so that the Lord's anger may be turned away from Israel (Numbers 25:4)

? -- Took the city of Heshbon from the Amorites

? -- All of the people of Bashan

? -- All Midianites except for the virgin girls (Numbers 31:17-18)

? -- The Israelites destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon leaving no survivors after the Lord gave them over to them (Deuteronomy 2:33-34)

? -- The Israelites destroy the men, women, and children of Og after the Lord gave them over to them (Deuteronomy 3:6)

? -- Everyone in Jericho but Rahab, a hooker who betrayed her city (Joshua 6:21-27)

? -- Achan and his family (who had nothing to do with it) for stealing (Joshua 7:19-26)

12,000 -- Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai with the God's approval (Joshua 8:22-25)

? -- Everyone in the cities of Ai, Amalek, Makkedah, Libnath, Lachish, Egnolites, Jarmuth, Geder, Hebronites, Debirites, Hormah, Arad, Addellam, Bethel, Tappuah, Hepher, Apheh, Lasheron, Madon, Tasnach, Megiddo, Kedesh, Jokneam, Dor, Goiim, Terzah, Gibeonites and all of the Amorites.

10,000 -- Canaanites of Bezek (Judges 1:4)

10,000 -- The Israelites kill the Moabites with the help of the Lord (Judges 3:29)

? -- The people of Jerusalem, Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai

? -- The people of Zephath, Gaza, Ashkelon, Ekron, and the king of Moab, Eglon.

? -- The army of Sisera and the men of Karkor

? -- Jephthah destroyed 20 cities

30 -- The Spirit of the Lord comes Samson and causes him to slay thirty men (Judges 14:19)

1000 -- Under the Spirit of the Lord, Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an *** (Judges 15:15)

3000 -- Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women (Judges 16: 27-30)

50,100 -- The men of the tribe of Benjamin (Judges 20:35, 43-48)

? -- The tribe of Jabesh-gilead

? -- The Ammonites, the Philistines and the Amelekites

331,269 -- David killed a whole bunch of people

3 -- Solomon killed a few people too

? -- All of Jeroboam's extended family

? -- All of Baasha's extended family

450 -- Prophets of Baal

793,000 -- All Jewish Baal-followers

127,000 -- Arameans slain by the Israelites with the help of the Lord (1 Kings 20:28-30)

1 -- Man who wouldn't strike a prophet

? -- Moabites

172 -- Jezebel, Ahab's sons, Joram, their priests, and their friends

142 -- Ahaziah's relatives

? -- The sacrifice of the firstborn of Israel so that the Lord might horrify them.

? -- All of Baal's followers

1 -- Athaliah for killing sons

1 -- Mattan the Baal priest

10,002 -- Edomites and two servents

? -- All of the pregnant women in Tirzah

20,000 -- Hezekiah killed a bunch of people

500,000 -- Israelites killed each other

50,000 -- Ethiopians

23,000 -- Seerites

510 -- Haman's army

75,300 -- More of the army

___________________________________________

2,017,956 + ? -- Total killed by God's followers under his orders!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

2,017,956 + ? -- Total killed by God's followers under his orders!

It makes you wonder why anyone would want to believe in such a nasty piece of work.

 

[Altfish]

It makes you wonder why anyone would want to believe in such a nasty piece of work.

I forgot to give Satan's death toll...

? -- Satan killed Job's children after God gave him permission to.

A slam dunk to God if you ask me

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I forgot to give Satan's death toll...
? -- Satan killed Job's children after God gave him permission to.
A slam dunk to God if you ask me

Satan is the nice one really.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

wers under his orders![/QUOTE]

Satan is the nice one really.

So who are you going to blame when you are near death....God or Satan?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Science over the last 15 years or so of theoretical physics has essentially proven the existence of God.

I agree that modern science especially theoretical physics have pointed out where to find God....and maybe the 'father of all lies' ie Satan.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So who are you going to blame when you are near death....God or Satan?

I'm not going to blame anyone because I don't subscribe to these Sunday School beliefs.

 

[Segev Moran]

disclaimer; I like atheists as well as any other people. I love those anyone that practice non violent lifestyles religion and such. I was only using atheists to contrast Christians being derided bit in this thread....

Well... I Love you too

We have a lot to talk about concerning religion.

I'm always open to discussions

Almost every statement you made regarding religion was incorrect, sometimes by a little sometimes by a poo-load!. It actually saddens me when I read such false hoods because it harms you as well as others.

I Disagree.. But I would be happy if you could show me what wrongs i made...
Please note that my statements are NOT for ALL religious people and not all religions.. Although I Do think that a few of the claims are relevant to Any religion

I would wager a bet that you had to been taught to despise or simply not like religion and maybe religious people by someone who thought they were doing you a favor.

You will lose the bet.. so don't

How do I know that?

Well, apparently you don't...

I was born an atheist and lived as an atheist until I was nearly 21.

I Wasn't.. and most of my family is very spiritual (Sometimes too much if you ask me)
I Wasn't raised as a religious person.. but very connected to God and Spirituality.
I Have very little bad things to say about the religious people that are my friends.. And most of the religious people I have met in my life were nice and very descent people...
This still doesn't mean they are right or what they do with their belief is right... it just means they are nice people.
How old are you BTW?

I still love science

That's good and valuable.

even though it has been racked with forgeries fraud and other life destroying crimes and job destroying falsehoods.

As we are humans, EVERY thing can be abused.. the difference is that once a "fraud" is discovered.. it takes about 1` day for every scientific organization that is related to that fraud will explain why it is so...
When there is a fraud (Like scientist saying that global warming is just a scam), There are those who can PROVE that this is a fraud by providing actual evidence to support their statement.
I Think it is very hard to do in religion... If someone claims he is the reincarnation of Moses for example.. How will you prove him wrong???

Don't believe me?

See above...

Well you have plenty of time to learn the truth!

I Hope

If you think religious thought was used to influence thought think about this;

I Really do

Pol Pot atheist, killed millions for nothing.

Well.. as atheism is not nothing.. I can't see the connection here... The fact he was an atheist doesn't mean he did what he did in the name of Atheism.. he did it because he was a psycho!

Stalin, atheist psychopath, killed many millions of religious and intellectuals.

Stalin.. made himself a God.. So even if he wasn't a religious person, he used the power of Faith and belief to manipulate people.

Today North Korea the little nut that runs the place kills millions and is an atheist....Now that is destructive and hate filled behaviors and is only a fraction of mostly atheist players.

Again, You make these claims.. But these are examples of people who were doing bad things not in the name of Atheism..
The basis of atheism is science.. YOU CAN'T use science as grounds for domination unlike religion...
There is no claim that says We will conquer the world in the name of Evolution...
(Unless you really don't know what Evolution is.. and I fear, there are too many people who don't really know what it means...)

I Heard countless of people say: So the world should be based on "Survival of the fittest"??? Without even understanding what it means!
Every scientist also claims that Darwinism is one of the worst ways to live as a society!

People are using and abusing people with the use of ANYTHING... the difference is that if you are literate about science... NO ONE can convince you that a science claim should be used to cause pain and abuse!!!

disclaimer; I like atheists as well as any other people. I love those anyone that practice non violent lifestyles religion and such. I was only using atheists to contrast Christians being derided bit in this thread....

We agree on that..
I love people regardless the way they live their lives.. When their ways hurt others, that is when My love for them decays...[/QUOTE]

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

True, we can not falsify that claim. What we can do is reduce it to an infinitely small probability, and easily.

That claim need not be falsified, and it can't be anyway, so its not a proper scientific question.

Absent evidence, there can be an infinite amount of cosmological claims that are epistemologically equal by default (as each has 0 supporting evidence and can not be falsified)

I highly disagree! Cosmological arguments are not equal by any means range from weak to strong. The structure of cosmological arguments are similar but no two are exactly alike. They use the tools of logic , model, deductive, observation, natural law, and physics and draw inferences via logical syllogism. Also Cosmological arguments have different standards to meet than a scientific question seeking empirical evidence, they are different. I only use one Cosmological argument and a couple of ontological arguments (Godels for example) as evidence for the existence of God and to prove the rationality via logical deduction. All these things (many I didn't mention) add up to and make a strong case for the existence of God

All existing cosmological claims are without evidence and can not be falsified.

With all due respect and without intentional insult I feel you are confusing cosmological arguments with something else. I highly doubt you can vet your claim (above). Its patently false!

Therefore, all existing cosmological claims are equally, infinitely, unlikely.

The premises of the KCA (Kalam Cosmological Argument) are true, which means the conclusion of the KCA (that God exists) is also true. But I don't say the KCA proves God exists, because I do not believe 100% accuracy is not possible by we humans in this universe that by its very nature relies on uncertainty to work. Also in addition to uncertainty chaos, probabilities, and quantum entanglement with its cousin superposition etc are the mechanisms that allow the universe to exist. So to close, the KCA adds evidence that God exists, if not logic has failed us.

God bless ME...lol no really God bless this world and our beautiful forum and its members...



Except from 'Desert Places'

They cannot scare me with their empty spaces
Between stars--on stars where no human race is.
I have it in me so much nearer home
To scare myself with my own desert places.

[Robert Frost, from "Desert Places," 1936]

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I'm not going to blame anyone because I don't subscribe to these Sunday School beliefs.

As long as you think about stuff and even though you dont go into deep detail, I think you are a deep thinker. However my hope that you will at least keep an open mind about those 'Sunday school beliefs' and read some advanced material, even if its just one pro God book a year. Bleive it or not, I try to keep the open mind thing too in operation. I have no doubt if new evidence emerged and it was good enough to support the non existence of an intelligent designer or God I would pile on. That is true even if God looked like the FSM etc lol.

 

[ArtieE]

The premises of the KCA (Kalam Cosmological Argument) are true, which means the conclusion of the KCA (that God exists) is also true.

An interesting article about the KCA. http://infidels.org/library/modern/dan_barker/kalamity.html

 

[Altfish]

wers under his orders!

So who are you going to blame when you are near death....God or Satan? [/QUOTE]
Neither, I may as well blame Santa Clause

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Neither, I may as well blame Santa Clause

That Santa Claus has a lot of answer for.

 

[jonathan180iq]

If the FSM had the attributes of God, ie immortality omniscience, etc it would be God. Physical appearance is no guide to anything important... kind of like in our human experiance....

This has nothing to do with physical appearance and everything to do with the nature of the questions of and claims about God(s).

There is often a challenge that one cannot prove that a thing which doesn't exist, doesn't exist.
It's an idiotic line of reasoning, as there necessarily can be no evidence for a thing that doesn't exist.

So, like claims about God, Science cannot "prove" that god does not exist.
Similarly, however, science cannot "prove" that the FSM does not exist - for the same reasons...