Can science prove or disprove the existence of a Spiritual existence? God?

[s2a]

Faith is a matter of mind and heart.
By definition...no proof is required.

Understand his reply Immortal Flame?

I suspect you may not as yet… so…

“Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Phil 1:27 ; 2 th 2:13 ). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests.”
Easton’s Bible Dictionary
Faith - Easton's Bible Dictionary Online

Note the emphasis…”the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true”…

Also note that faith alone is not a claim of any empirical fact… only a testament of an earnest belief and an interpretive understanding of a philosophical/existential “truth”.

Faith does not demand “proofs” of empirical test or experiment, It’s only demanding requisite is a belief of something (anything) to be “true”…

I’ll grant you that is not much of any burdened claim of fact… but that’s not the essence of “faith”. The adherent of any faith based belief must be of “the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true”. That’s it. That’s all. Granted, it’s not a compelling arguement for the extended capacities of human reason, or critical thought… but there it is, and there you have it.

You either have “faith” in a “truth”, or you don’t. there’s not much wiggle room in matters of faith, and there is no allowance of doubt or question in matters of any “true” faith.

Understand?

If you are of any mind that favors estimable/evidential fact as support of a reasoned and evaluative conclusion, then “faith’ is not a concept considered.

In fact (pardon the use), religious faith is akin to the most persistent elements of popular conspiracy theories…, ie:

“The very lack of available disproof only serves to validate the conspiracy further!”

It would be impossible to keep the existence of alien bodies recovered at Roswell a secret for all these decades, therefore, it must be a very crafty and intricate and diabolical conspiracy to keep it secret!

God exists as proof of a god, because no one has disproven the non-existence of invisible space entities. But of course, the conspiring anti-god unfaithful scientists are working hard everyday to do so, because they lack faith.

Anyway, Immortal Flame… if you are unable to persuade your mind to accept something as “true” within the utter vacuous absence of any empirical evidences… you’ll never quite grasp the pov of any “true believer”. Nor will they ever ever even attempt to provide you with what you seek… because they don’t need it, can’t provide it, and don’t care either way.

Understand?

 

[Thief]

Understand his reply Immortal Flame?

I suspect you may not as yet… so…

“Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Phil 1:27 ; 2 th 2:13 ). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests.”
Easton’s Bible Dictionary
Faith - Easton's Bible Dictionary Online

Note the emphasis…”the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true”…

Also note that faith alone is not a claim of any empirical fact… only a testament of an earnest belief and an interpretive understanding of a philosophical/existential “truth”.

Faith does not demand “proofs” of empirical test or experiment, It’s only demanding requisite is a belief of something (anything) to be “true”…

I’ll grant you that is not much of any burdened claim of fact… but that’s not the essence of “faith”. The adherent of any faith based belief must be of “the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true”. That’s it. That’s all. Granted, it’s not a compelling arguement for the extended capacities of human reason, or critical thought… but there it is, and there you have it.

You either have “faith” in a “truth”, or you don’t. there’s not much wiggle room in matters of faith, and there is no allowance of doubt or question in matters of any “true” faith.

Understand?

If you are of any mind that favors estimable/evidential fact as support of a reasoned and evaluative conclusion, then “faith’ is not a concept considered.

In fact (pardon the use), religious faith is akin to the most persistent elements of popular conspiracy theories…, ie:

“The very lack of available disproof only serves to validate the conspiracy further!”

It would be impossible to keep the existence of alien bodies recovered at Roswell a secret for all these decades, therefore, it must be a very crafty and intricate and diabolical conspiracy to keep it secret!

God exists as proof of a god, because no one has disproven the non-existence of invisible space entities. But of course, the conspiring anti-god unfaithful scientists are working hard everyday to do so, because they lack faith.

Anyway, Immortal Flame… if you are unable to persuade your mind to accept something as “true” within the utter vacuous absence of any empirical evidences… you’ll never quite grasp the pov of any “true believer”. Nor will they ever ever even attempt to provide you with what you seek… because they don’t need it, can’t provide it, and don’t care either way.

Understand?

I noted the word 'persuasion'.

I am not persuaded easily.

I happen to love science. Grew up, head of my class on every occasion.

And then there is the obvious abundance of 'intelligent' life.
Billions of copies of a form the can do only, the formation of a unique spirit, with every occurrence.

And the scheme of things appears elusive?....really?

 

[InfidelRiot]

The burden of proof lies with the believer. After all, one is not going to state "prove to me gravity does not exist by jumping off a skyscraper".

 

[Thief]

The burden of proof lies with the believer. After all, one is not going to state "prove to me gravity does not exist by jumping off a skyscraper".

Strange you would choose that scenario.

As the Carpenter stood at the edge of a high place.....
the opportunity to 'prove' Himself the son of God was at hand.

He did not step off.

Perhaps religious thinking is not what most people think?

 

[s2a]

I noted the word 'persuasion'.

I am not persuaded easily.

I happen to love science. Grew up, head of my class on every occasion.

And then there is the obvious abundance of 'intelligent' life.
Billions of copies of a form the can do only, the formation of a unique spirit, with every occurrence.

And the scheme of things appears elusive?....really?

Was only quoting from an authoritative source of definition amongst the christian faithful...you are, of course, always invited to provide your own definitive and exacting definition of "faith" whenever you please...

 

[paarsurrey]

Can science prove or disprove the existence of a Spiritual existence? God?

Science is a tool to ascertain working truth in the things physical and material; in other fields, it could fail miserably.

 

[InfidelRiot]

Can science prove or disprove the existence of a Spiritual existence? God?

Science is a tool to ascertain working truth in the things physical and material; in other fields, it could fail miserably.

Or perhaps other things fail to stand up to the provable workings of science.

 

[HonestJoe]

Science is a tool to ascertain working truth in the things physical and material; in other fields, it could fail miserably.

Interesting assertion. Can you, in any way what so ever, actually back it up?

 

[paarsurrey]

Interesting assertion. Can you, in any way what so ever, actually back it up?

For instance in arts.

 

[Thief]

Or perhaps other things fail to stand up to the provable workings of science.

The Deity in question holds the quality of Creator.

All that is science, is exploration into what God has created.
Science can only explain how God did it. (on good day)

The discussion of Creator and His relationship to His creation is at hand.

I see no means at all...scientific or otherwise....to remove the Creator from what He has made.

 

[ArtieE]

I see no means at all...scientific or otherwise....to remove the Creator from what He has made.

Science hasn't removed anything. To remove something you must first show it exists and there is no evidence that a deity called God exits. On the contrary, religion has added something that has never been shown to exist. This is illogical. You might as well say fairies or trolls or pixies created the universe that would be just as logical as your statement.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

For instance in arts.

You're comparing God with popular opinion. Not a good start.

 

[Thief]

Science hasn't removed anything. To remove something you must first show it exists and there is no evidence that a deity called God exits. On the contrary, religion has added something that has never been shown to exist. This is illogical. You might as well say fairies or trolls or pixies created the universe that would be just as logical as your statement.

And now the question remains....which came first?
Spirit?....or substance?

(Focus on the singularity)

 

[ArtieE]

And now the question remains....which came first?
Spirit?....or substance?

(Focus on the singularity)

1. Did you understand the point of my post?
2. Do you mean energy and matter? They continually change into one another. None came "first" and none of them were "created". That would be impossible. "The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass, and energy cannot be created or destroyed." Wikipedia We don't know how the singularity came about. Just a natural reaction of the forces present at the time it started expanding.

 

[idea]

... energy cannot be created or destroyed." ....

I also think information is a conserved quantity - like energy/mass, that information cannot be destroyed... the universe is made up of more than just matter and energy - it is made up of information too, of laws, and I think it is also made up of something that can be called spirit, or intelligence, and that spirit cannot be created or destroyed.

We can't see energy, we can only see how it moves what is around it. Spirit is a little different from energy, a bouncing ball has energy, but it does not think or act for itself. The recently deceased has as much energy as the living, but there is something present in the living that is not there within the deceased.

 

[ArtieE]

I also think information is a conserved quantity - like energy/mass, that information cannot be destroyed... the universe is made up of more than just matter and energy - it is made up of information too, of laws, and I think it is also made up of something that can be called spirit, or intelligence, and that spirit cannot be created or destroyed.

Then you are a pantheist.

We can't see energy, we can only see how it moves what is around it.

Look at Energy.

Spirit is a little different from energy, a bouncing ball has energy, but it does not think or act for itself.

We have no evidence for the existence of this "spirit" or that it can think if it exists. We have no evidence that thought exists outside the human brain.

The recently deceased has as much energy as the living, but there is something present in the living that is not there within the deceased.

There is zero evidence for this. Nothing has ever been found.

 

[Thief]

1. Did you understand the point of my post?
2. Do you mean energy and matter? They continually change into one another. None came "first" and none of them were "created". That would be impossible. "The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass, and energy cannot be created or destroyed." Wikipedia We don't know how the singularity came about. Just a natural reaction of the forces present at the time it started expanding.

I do understand.

Someone had to be first..in thought and feeling.
That would be God.

Which came first...the creation?....of it's Creator?

 

[ArtieE]

I do understand.

Someone had to be first..in thought and feeling.
That would be God.

Which came first...the creation?....of it's Creator?

"The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass, and energy cannot be created or destroyed." Wikipedia What don't you understand about "energy cannot be created"?

 

[Thief]

"The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass, and energy cannot be created or destroyed." Wikipedia What don't you understand about "energy cannot be created"?

So the singularity 'create' itself....and did a really good job of it.

 

[ArtieE]

So the singularity 'create' itself....and did a really good job of it.

It didn't create itself. It's just a result of unknown natural forces. When water condensates on a cold pipe you can't say the water "created" itself. It's just the water vapor in the air changing into water. No deities needed to "create" water.