Can science prove or disprove the existence of a Spiritual existence? God?

[Call_of_the_Wild]

So basicly u are stating that aleles don't exist and natural selection doesn't exist either? Because evolution is inevitable due to the behaviour of genes within populations. If you believe you are made of genes, then u believe in evolution baby, wether u like it or not

What I am saying is, there are changes, but changes on a small scale. There are limitations to the change, and those limitations stop at the "kind", such as the "dog" kind.....the "cat" kind......the "spider" kind. You will get many types of dogs, cats, fish...but they will always be what they are, a dog, a cat, a fish. Without all of the technical babble, it is easy to see that throughout human history, animals have always produced their own kind......meaning that dogs will always produce dogs, cats will produce cats, etc. To go beyond this and say that the origin of all dogs came from a non-dog, this is something that is completely faith based and has no place in science whatsoever.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

And where is that issue in conflict with evolution? You do understand that evolution is a branching tree, right? Everything replicates with variation based on the previous generation. So how does a dog have to produce a "non-dog" before evolution is demonstrated? If such a thing actually happened, it would actually go against what we currently understand about how evolution works. Do you understand the basics of genetic diversification?

Wait a minute, so, you believe that the origin of the first dog was not a dog, which is an example of an animal producing something different that what it is.....yet you are asking me "how does a dog have to produce a non-dog before evolution is demonstrated"?? I guess the answer would be the same way the non-dog that produced the "dog" has to be demonstrated.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

To the contrary, I don't believe ANYTHING by faith. I believe in evolution because THERE ARE MUSEUMS WITH COMPLETE BONE STRUCTURES OF HOMO SAPIENS, ERECTUS, DIFFERENT SPECIES OF ANIMALS, OF MONKEYS, PRIMATES, THATS EVOLUTION. You think all these animals were created independantly by god and we all co-existed and so many species just diseapeared for some reason, you have no clue about what happened on earth my man, educate yourself.

I am trying to figure out what does complete bone structures and different species of animals have to do with evolution. I could easily say that these similarities were the result of a COMMON DESIGNER, as opposed to COMMON ANCESTOR. You see the bone structures of homo sapiens and the bone structures of primates and think, "they are similiar, so one must have evolved from the other"......that is the biggest leap of faith since any religion I can think of.

And like I said, you still have no clue what evolution is. To go from a wolf to a dog takes millions of years with VERY SUTLE changes! A wolf never gave birth to a dog. Evolution does not teach that at all.

Of course, millions of years, when no one alive today will be around to see it occur.

 

[Gui10]

I am trying to figure out what does complete bone structures and different species of animals have to do with evolution. I could easily say that these similarities were the result of a COMMON DESIGNER, as opposed to COMMON ANCESTOR. You see the bone structures of homo sapiens and the bone structures of primates and think, "they are similiar, so one must have evolved from the other"......that is the biggest leap of faith since any religion I can think of.



Of course, millions of years, when no one alive today will be around to see it occur.

There have been living mammals on this earth for millions of years...

I understand now why you say evolutionists are wrong; you thought evolutionist said ''we will see the results of evolution in a million years''. In that case, yes, I agree with you, it is an easy answer to give. BUT THATS NOT WHAT IT IS! We see the results of evolution RIGHT NOW! We see the evolution that has already occured in the past! Some animals continue to evolve, us humans, however, are pretty much done with evolution because ''the survival of the fittest'' is not true anymore (any idiot or handicap can reproduce).

 

[Gui10]

I am trying to figure out what does complete bone structures and different species of animals have to do with evolution. I could easily say that these similarities were the result of a COMMON DESIGNER, as opposed to COMMON ANCESTOR. You see the bone structures of homo sapiens and the bone structures of primates and think, "they are similiar, so one must have evolved from the other"......that is the biggest leap of faith since any religion I can think of.



Of course, millions of years, when no one alive today will be around to see it occur.

Similarities are the result of a common designer? Oh because there ever was an option of several designers? LOL.

You think a designer would create these animals?

-a monkey
-a monkey whos a bit taller
-a monkey whos a bit taller with a bit less hair on its body
-a monkey whos a bit taller with a bit less hair on its body and who can walk on two legs instead of four limbs
-a tall monkey who mainly uses two legs to move
-a tall monkey whos back is straight and walks normally on two legs


DO YOU REALLY THINK A DESIGNER would make all these (almost identical) species of monkeys?

A designer would make a a monkey, he would make a human, he would make a fish, he would make a horse, species that are different from eachother!

The steps I described earlier are EVOLUTIVE STEPS!!!!

 

[otokage007]

and those limitations stop at the "kind"

how exactly?

 

[Breathe]

You think a designer would create these animals?

-a monkey
-a monkey whos a bit taller
-a monkey whos a bit taller with a bit less hair on its body
-a monkey whos a bit taller with a bit less hair on its body and who can walk on two legs instead of four limbs
-a tall monkey who mainly uses two legs to move
-a tall monkey whos back is straight and walks normally on two legs

DO YOU REALLY THINK A DESIGNER would make all these (almost identical) species of monkeys?

Apparently, this Designer really likes monkeys. And similarity in general.

 

[ArtieE]

1. The Bible said the earth is round and is suspended in space"

Nonsense.

A Jewish Rabbi and a lecturer in the Talmud explains:
"The Biblical picture is clearly geocentric. The earth has the shape of a flat disc so that if one were able to travel far enough, one would eventually arrive at the 'ends of the earth' Jewish Cosmology

"The universe of the Hebrew Bible was made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6]"

"Pillars or foundations prevent the earth-disk from sinking into the sub-earth waters of Chaos.[50]"

"Humans inhabited earth during life and the underworld after death, and the underworld was morally neutral;[7] only in Hellenistic times (after c.330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8] In this period too the older three-level cosmology was widely replaced by the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the centre of a number of concentric heavens.[6] ...
Biblical Cosmology

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

how exactly?

So far, we have only seen dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, fish produce fish....and there is no evidence that anything OTHER than this has ever occurred....that is how.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

There have been living mammals on this earth for millions of years...

Right, animals have been on this earth for millions of years. But we have no reason to think that the animals of yesterday were able to do something that the animals of today haven't been able to do, and that is produce an animal that is different from what it is.

I understand now why you say evolutionists are wrong; you thought evolutionist said ''we will see the results of evolution in a million years''. In that case, yes, I agree with you, it is an easy answer to give. BUT THATS NOT WHAT IT IS! We see the results of evolution RIGHT NOW! We see the evolution that has already occured in the past! Some animals continue to evolve, us humans, however, are pretty much done with evolution because ''the survival of the fittest'' is not true anymore (any idiot or handicap can reproduce).

Give me an example of an animal producing something that is different from what it currently is, i.e, a dog producing a non-dog. That is what evolution is. As I keep stating, if you believe that the dogs of today (or yesterday), got its origin from a non-dog, then this is an example of an animal producing a different kind of animal. This has never been observed or tested. It is based on a faith based interpretation and has no place in science.

 

[ArtieE]

Give me an example of an animal producing something that is different from what it currently is, i.e, a dog producing a non-dog. That is what evolution is. As I keep stating, if you believe that the dogs of today (or yesterday), got its origin from a non-dog, then this is an example of an animal producing a different kind of animal. This has never been observed or tested. It is based on a faith based interpretation and has no place in science.

The grey wolf evolved into the dog. Everybody knows that. Origin of the domestic dog Nobody suggests that a grew wolf ever gave birth to a chihuahua as you seem to think evolution says.

 

[paarsurrey]

The grey wolf evolved into the dog. Everybody knows that. Origin of the domestic dog Nobody suggests that a grew wolf ever gave birth to a chihuahua as you seem to think evolution says.

The evolution does not say anything; it is deaf and dumb; it is what the observation of the observant says; it is just an interpretation of the observants of a phenomenon in nature; it need not be 100% correct as science does not claim to be 100% accurate.

 

[ArtieE]

The evolution does not say anything; it is deaf and dumb; it is what the observation of the observant says; it is just an interpretation of the observants of a phenomenon in nature; it need not be 100% correct as science does not claim to be 100% accurate.

True. Could have written "evolutionists say". The point should be clear anyway.

 

[paarsurrey]

True. Could have written "evolutionists say". The point should be clear anyway.

May be not all the evolutionists agree on it 100% so one should say some evolutionist have the opinion.... .

 

[ArtieE]

May be not all the evolutionists agree on it 100% so one should say some evolutionist have the opinion.... .

Sure. Do you have any comments on the point of the post or just remarks on the semantics?

 

[otokage007]

What I am saying is, there are changes, but changes on a small scale. There are limitations to the change, and those limitations stop at the "kind", such as the "dog" kind.....the "cat" kind......the "spider" kind. You will get many types of dogs, cats, fish...but they will always be what they are, a dog, a cat, a fish. Without all of the technical babble, it is easy to see that throughout human history, animals have always produced their own kind......meaning that dogs will always produce dogs, cats will produce cats, etc. To go beyond this and say that the origin of all dogs came from a non-dog, this is something that is completely faith based and has no place in science whatsoever.

So you are basicly saying that God created all species, but he did such a mess, that thousands of species became extinct? Is God so unwise about nature that he creates species that are so bad adapted to the enviroment that they become exitinct? :/

So far, we have only seen dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, fish produce fish....and there is no evidence that anything OTHER than this has ever occurred....that is how.

You say they change, but they never become a new specie, so there must be a limit to the changing process. I'm asking you: why they do reach this limit? How is this process working?

 

[Gui10]

i.e, a dog producing a non-dog. That is what evolution is.

that is not what evolution is how many times will i have to repeat it!!! You are a complete

 

[otokage007]

You are a complete

sweetheart

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

The grey wolf evolved into the dog. Everybody knows that. Origin of the domestic dog Nobody suggests that a grew wolf ever gave birth to a chihuahua as you seem to think evolution says.

So if a grey wolf evolved into a dog, that would mean that whatever produced the grey wolf wasn't a dog.....thus.....an animal producing a different kind of animal.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

that is not what evolution is how many times will i have to repeat it!!! You are a complete

If the grey wolf was produced by something that wasn't a dog, how is that not what evolution is??? There is no getting around this Gui10....I don't know what it is you are trying to say, but there is no getting around this.