Can science prove or disprove the existence of a Spiritual existence? God?

[Call_of_the_Wild]

By whose "definition?" Even when you're dealing with only whole numbers, then subtracting can increase the answer (because you're subtracting a negative) or adding decrease it, or keep it the same. (Because zero is a whole number.) With some more advanced structures, e.g. complex numbers, "less than" doesn't even mean anything.

Umm, huh? I fail to see the point being made. My argument is if you subtract from ANYTHING you are supposed to have less than what you started with. You are not to have the same amount.

Besides, having the same amount of marbles afterwards makes perfect sense to me. After all, if I had less of them after giving some to you, then I could give enough to you that I wouldn't have any. If I can do that, then my original collection wasn't very infinite in the first place, was it?

The only way to not have any marbles is if you were to give me the whole set. Any amount besides "the whole" will still leave you with an infinite amount. This is clearly absurd. When you subtract from any amount, if you don't have less than you had before, something is wrong here. The point is, infinity exists only as a concept, it is not something that can exist in reality. No one can have an infinite amount of anything, nor can anyone reach infinity with successive addition.

 

[PolyHedral]

Umm, huh? I fail to see the point being made. My argument is if you subtract from ANYTHING you are supposed to have less than what you started with. You are not to have the same amount

I cited examples where this is not true. I can cite more, if you like.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

I cited examples where this is not true. I can cite more, if you like.

Show me an example that explains the concept of subtracting from something and still having the same amount you had previously...or adding to something and still having the same amount you had previously.

 

[McBell]

Show me an example that explains the concept of subtracting from something and still having the same amount you had previously...or adding to something and still having the same amount you had previously.

Please be so kind as to present the actual number that infinity represents.

You know, like how seven represents the number 7.

 

[idav]

Show me an example that explains the concept of subtracting from something and still having the same amount you had previously...or adding to something and still having the same amount you had previously.

If you were looking at a line with infinite points and you pointed three of them out, how many points are left for you to point at?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Please be so kind as to present the actual number that infinity represents.

You know, like how seven represents the number 7.

I never used infinity as a number, even though it does have a symbol, which look like a sideways 8. I use infinity as an amount, not a number.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

If you were looking at a line with infinite points and you pointed three of them out, how many points are left for you to point at?

Answer...an infinite number of points...and thats the problem.....I got one for ya...if you used that same line with infinite points on it and you mark one point as the "present'.....and you mark one point as the "past", and if there are an infinite number of points between the past and the present, how would you ever reach the present point?

 

[adi2d]

Ok let me try. Let's make the time line. One point is jesus' birthday. How old is God? Add 2000 years to today. How old is God today?
Looks like X+2000 equals X. Is that an example?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Ok let me try. Let's make the time line. One point is jesus' birthday. How old is God? Add 2000 years to today. How old is God today?
Looks like X+2000 equals X. Is that an example?

That won't work because no one is arguing that God traversed infinity to reach the present point. The argument is that, before God created the universe, he was eternal/timeless....in a sense that time simply did not apply to him, in fact, he is the one that created time at the moment of the big bang. So asking how old is God is like asking how dry is water.

Now I ask again, if the past is eternal (temporal), and there are an infinite amount of points from any point in the eternal past and this very present moment, how could the present be reached?

 

[adi2d]

You said "my argument is if you subtract from ANYTHING you are supposed to have less than what you started with"
" Show me an example...or adding to something and still having the same amount you had previously
I believe I did that with my example with God being infinite

 

[adi2d]

That won't work because no one is arguing that God traversed infinity to reach the present point. The argument is that, before God created the universe, he was eternal/timeless....in a sense that time simply did not apply to him, in fact, he is the one that created time at the moment of the big bang. So asking how old is God is like asking how dry is water.

Now I ask again, if the past is eternal (temporal), and there are an infinite amount of points from any point in the eternal past and this very present moment, how could the present be reached?

There are an infinite points of time between now and tomorrow yet we get there

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

There are an infinite points of time between now and tomorrow yet we get there

There is an finite amount of points between now and tomorrow. This only makes sense if there was a beginning of time, and according to the BBT, there was a beginning of time. So the time between 13.7 billion years and the present moment is finite. But, if time never began, then the past is infinite, so why did the present moment only arrive now? Why not yesterday? Why not the day before? Makes no sense.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

You said "my argument is if you subtract from ANYTHING you are supposed to have less than what you started with"
" Show me an example...or adding to something and still having the same amount you had previously
I believe I did that with my example with God being infinite

I must of missed it but it doesn't matter, because I am not arguing that God is infinite in time anyway.

 

[McBell]

so why did the present moment only arrive now? Why not yesterday? Why not the day before? Makes no sense.

Because of the definitions of the words you are using.
Present does not mean yesterday, nor does it mean tomorrow, present means now.

 

[PolyHedral]

Answer...an infinite number of points...and thats the problem.....I got one for ya...if you used that same line with infinite points on it and you mark one point as the "present'.....and you mark one point as the "past", and if there are an infinite number of points between the past and the present, how would you ever reach the present point?

Because all the infinite infinitely divisible points add up to a finite value.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Because of the definitions of the words you are using.
Present does not mean yesterday, nor does it mean tomorrow, present means now.

Wow I see you clearly missed the point...how about this...why didn't the present moment, as I am now typing this, arrive yesterday, or last year??

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Because all the infinite infinitely divisible points add up to a finite value.

I asked "How would you reach the present point"......and I fail to see how the above quote answered this question. How about this, I have an analogy for you. Lets say you were running on an infinitely long road....and you have been running forever. You never began to run, you have been running for an infinitely long time on an infinitely long road. And lets say that as you are running, you see me at a distance, standing on the road, and once you reach the point where I am, I say "Poly, I want you to turn around, and I want you to run back the opposite direction where you came, and I want you to stop when you reach the same distance it took you to get to me." And you say "No problem", and you turn around and start running. Now my question is, where would you stop?? And how long of a distance would it be??

 

[PolyHedral]

I wouldn't stop; I'd reach my destination after an infinite amount of time. However, because of the peculiarities of how infinity works, I could go there and back in the same amount of time.

One would reach any point along the infinitely long road in a finite amount of time, and so one can reach the future even if there is an infinitely long past behind it. (If you disagree, where do you start from? You can't start at "the beginning" or even at "the end" and go backwards; neither of those places exist.)

 

[McBell]

Wow I see you clearly missed the point...how about this...why didn't the present moment, as I am now typing this, arrive yesterday, or last year??

Really?
And what point are you so poorly attempting to convey?

merely saying the point was missed and repeating the same question will only get you the same answer.

 

[Breathe]

Because all the infinite infinitely divisible points add up to a finite value.

And yet you ran away screaming when I asked you to do my accounting homework.